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danmdrums
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: Anxious newb! |
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Hello,
First off, thanks to everyone who posts their experiences here. I've been lurking for a while just reading what people have to say, but finally registered today. So, if I ask any redundant questions, I apologize in advance.
I want to go to Korea in the fall - late August or September-ish. I'm dealing with a few different recruiters right now, as well as trying to seek out jobs on my own. Right now I'm talking to GMSC, who seem fine but a tad unorganized...they have been the most proactive in trying to find me a placement, though the Korean lady who is head of recruitment left me a subtly pushy message when I couldn't take an unexpected call.
I guess I'm just wondering what to steer clear of in the way of recruiters? What are red flags to look for? Right now I'm overwhelmed with information and it's tough to know where to start and what to be finicky about. I'm seriously considering going the chain-Hagwon route. Even with all of the long hours and limited vacations, I'd rather travel half way around the world with guaranteed pay and just take a long vacation after my contract is up.
Hmm...I'm also confused about when prime hiring season is. Am I applying at the wrong time? After a few days of action, I'm talking to one school at the moment. I'm reading posts of other people who seem to be swimming in contract offers. If I may ask, which recruiters are you guys using? Does that even matter? How long does it take to generate that amount of interest in hiring you?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out! |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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What have you done to get the recruiters you're talking with? Have you posted your resume on Daves? If not, I would highly recommend it. When I was trying to get a job I was swimming in jobs after posting my resume here.
The other thing is, in my opinion, you need to know exactly where you want to go and when. That way, when you talk to a recruiter, you tell them what you want. Ignore everything else. I got so many offers I just scanned over 90% of them. Know the hours you want to work, all that stuff.
I'm not sure if there are red flags for recruiters. I never worried about a bad recruiter, just bad jobs. One of the recruiters sent me a terrible job and when I told him I didn't like it he insisted that it was fine and standard. I ignored everything from him from there on.
For me, I ended up not even going with a recruiter. A chain hagwon contacted me and offered me a great position so I took it and I can't be happier. My advice for getting a good job is if you see a contract you like, with the right hours, pay, location, all that, start doing research online about the school. Also, talk to a foreign teacher at the school and ask the basics like if they get paid on time, are forced to work extra, get their sick days, stuff like that.
I wouldn't worry about prime hiring season. Either a job will be there or it wont. I'm pretty sure for private the jobs are there all the time. I know for my school there are teachers with their contracts up all year. if you did public it would be different. To my knowledge the worst time to look for a job is right around June because there are all the people that just graduated looking for jobs. |
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sean2406
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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First post here,
I'm in the same position as you, danmdrums, but haven't actually got in touch with any recruiters or anything yet, just made a list of them and a few chains, planning on getting stuck in to applications tomorrow. Also going to sort out my CRB check tomorrow.
Zanniati, without sounding like a stalker, your post here seemed very informative for newbies, so I had a look through your posts on here, quite interesting to read through the process. Would you say that its best to wait to apply until after I have the CRB etc, or is it worth starting now?
I'll certainly post my resume on Daves, sounds like it's the best way to go along with WorknPlay which I seen on one of your other posts.
Looking forward to getting through the process! |
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danmdrums
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info guys!
Hey Sean - As far as I can tell, the CRB can happen concurrent to your job search. The 3 recruiters I've been in touch with have all said they'd shop my resume around and recommended that I start the CRB process in the mean time. A daunting task, no doubt. Cheers! |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Anxious newb! |
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| danmdrums wrote: |
Hello,
I guess I'm just wondering what to steer clear of in the way of recruiters? What are red flags to look for?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out! |
they are all good and they are all bad
Search yourself and you have access to perhaps 20-50 potential employers who may be able to actually READ your resume and perhaps can get you through the visa confirmation process (not always easy for 1st time applicants).
Use 20 recruiters and that number jumps up into the many hundreds or potentially over 1000 jobs, even if the employer himself doesn't speak English (lots of hagwan jobs, MOST private placement PS jobs and virtually ALL private K-12 jobs fall into this category).
The problem lies in the fact that most people do NOT understand the role of the recruiter.
They are an introduction to a potential employer that you yourself would not otherwise be able to find. Then, if they are any good at their job, they guide you through the placement and assist with the paperwork necessary to get you as far as the employer.
They are NOT your friend.
They do NOT work for you (they are paid for and work for the employer).
They are like a used car salesman.
You walk onto their car-lot (website), peruse the cars (available jobs), if you see one you like you inquire about it.
After you listen to the sales pitch you let YOUR mechanic have a look at it (due diligence checking out the school).
If it is all good then you make the offer (accept the contract) and complete the sale (begin the paperwork for your visa application).
A good salesman will ensure that the paperwork is in order to make the sale and allow you to register the car. (A good recruiter will make sure your paperwork is in order and help get you through the paperwork to get your visa.)
I have no problem with using a recruiter or telling anyone else to use one (or more the case, many). They are your best option for fining the BEST fit when it comes to a job in Korea (or most of Asia for that matter).
| ttompatz wrote: |
For someone who is abroad, no connections and no ability to communicate in Korean then recruiters are a necessary evil.
That doesn't mean it is a crap shoot.
ALL recruiters are good. All recruiters are bad.
BUT they are a bridge to a job that you would not otherwise find.
The trick is in understanding what they are and what they do.
| ttompatz wrote: |
Really, when it comes to a recruiter, who cares where they are from or where they are based?
A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.
Unless you have an extensive network of friends and/or colleagues in your target country OR can read/write and speak the local language and can apply directly they are a necessary evil.
REPEAT: A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.
Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.
-You are not paying them anything (or you shouldn't be).
-THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! - They work for the school.
-They owe you nothing once you get here.
-They are not your friend.
-They are not your baby sitter.
-They cannot help you if things go to *beep* after you get here.
Beyond that it is YOUR responsibility to check the school out.
Do NOT trust ANY recruiter. They are like used car salesmen. They will lie and sell their soul to get the signature on the contract.
Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.
Use the recruiters for what they are. Use more than one and keep going until you get what you want. There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.
When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.
1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...
The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.
No foreign staff references to talk (directly and via e-mail) to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.
ONE CAVEAT: if it is a public school there may not be a Native English Speaker to talk to but there is a chain of command OUTSIDE THE SCHOOL (your POE liaison) if you have problems and they are more strict in following the terms of the contract.
7777 |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sean2406 wrote: |
Zanniati, without sounding like a stalker, your post here seemed very informative for newbies, so I had a look through your posts on here, quite interesting to read through the process. Would you say that its best to wait to apply until after I have the CRB etc, or is it worth starting now?
I'll certainly post my resume on Daves, sounds like it's the best way to go along with WorknPlay which I seen on one of your other posts.
Looking forward to getting through the process! |
Hey man, glad I was helpful. I just went through the whole process and I have done a ridiculous amount of research. It really paid off for me too. So, there are a lot of things I don't know, but I do know what the general consensus is on a lot of issues and I know how the process works.
I had started the process to post my resume on WorknPlay but I ended up not doing it after posting on Daves and getting a lot of responses. My advice honestly is to get your papers in order before you really start the job hunt. Your CBC will take 5-12 weeks, that's a big difference. Then you need the notary, the apostille, and you need to get your school to send you an OFFICIAL SEALED transcript. This is overlooked so often, I don't know why. Some schools take weeks to get it to you. Apply for it right away, or if you're lucky like me, make the trek to your school and go pick it up the next day if they'll make it ready for you that soon.
Also, you have a lot of research to do before you start talking to recruiters. You should have a really good idea of what you want before talking to them. Try to know these things:
-Where you want to work
-When you want to start
-What age group you want to teach
-Hours you want to work (time of day, etc)
-How much you want to be paid
There's a lot of info on Daves about a lot of this issues. The main reason you want to know this stuff is because recruiters will drown you in jobs. You need to know what you want so you can tell them "I don't want these jobs I want this, this, this, and this. This is what is important to me, this is what isn't." Then send them on their way to find you a job. You'll be able to turn down all the jobs you don't want and pick out the ones you do which will probably be 10% of the jobs, if that.
Okay, so, that's a bunch of info. If you have more questions, just post. I'll look into this thread pretty often. If you want to give me your email (you can't PM yet) you can post it here and I'll send you an email and you can ask me more things that way if little things come up. |
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Izyb
Joined: 26 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for this topic, it's really helpful.
I'm new to the process and I'm wanting to go to Korea in August or September. I've applied through EPIK and had the interview - but I'm still wanting to hear back and it's been over a week now. Worried I've put all my eggs into one basket... I did like the sound of public schools better - I like the idea of finishing around 5pm and only doing 22 hours of teaching a week, but I REALLY want to go to Korea this year!
Wondering if I should start considering private and maybe start getting that ball started so I can definitely end up there. Does any one know of any Australian/New Zealand based recruitment agencies? |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Izyb wrote: |
Thanks for this topic, it's really helpful.
Wondering if I should start considering private and maybe start getting that ball started so I can definitely end up there. Does any one know of any Australian/New Zealand based recruitment agencies? |
Sort of repeating what has been said earlier that you're going to want to post your resume and let recruiters contact you. You don't need to go in and meet them or anything. At the most they'll ask for your Skype but they will definitely want to talk to you over the phone. As far as I know, meeting your recruiter would be really uncommon. Everything is done online and you send all your paperwork in. As far as I know, recruiters do not limit themselves to Americans, or Canadians or whatever. They work with people from all different countries. (This is not something I'm 100% sure about though.)
Just so you know, you can get a private job with the hours like that. It's harder, but possible. I work 9-4, M-F and teach only about 20 hours a week at a hagwon. |
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Izyb
Joined: 26 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Zanniati - are you enjoying your time in South Korea? And your school?
Ohh I don't want to meet my recruiter directly... It'd just be nice having someone who's working in the same time zone as you. It's not essential, but figured it'd be worth asking =) |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Izyb wrote: |
| Thanks Zanniati - are you enjoying your time in South Korea? And your school? |
Absolutely love it here. I know some people don't like to play it up but I really do love it. I've been really lucky though. I found a great job, great director, I love my city, and I've met some great people. |
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Izyb
Joined: 26 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Sounds awesome! Where are you based?
It's really nice to get some positive feedback! |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in Ilsan. It's a satellite city to the north west of Seoul. |
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sean2406
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Zanniati wrote: |
| sean2406 wrote: |
Zanniati, without sounding like a stalker, your post here seemed very informative for newbies, so I had a look through your posts on here, quite interesting to read through the process. Would you say that its best to wait to apply until after I have the CRB etc, or is it worth starting now?
I'll certainly post my resume on Daves, sounds like it's the best way to go along with WorknPlay which I seen on one of your other posts.
Looking forward to getting through the process! |
Hey man, glad I was helpful. I just went through the whole process and I have done a ridiculous amount of research. It really paid off for me too. So, there are a lot of things I don't know, but I do know what the general consensus is on a lot of issues and I know how the process works.
I had started the process to post my resume on WorknPlay but I ended up not doing it after posting on Daves and getting a lot of responses. My advice honestly is to get your papers in order before you really start the job hunt. Your CBC will take 5-12 weeks, that's a big difference. Then you need the notary, the apostille, and you need to get your school to send you an OFFICIAL SEALED transcript. This is overlooked so often, I don't know why. Some schools take weeks to get it to you. Apply for it right away, or if you're lucky like me, make the trek to your school and go pick it up the next day if they'll make it ready for you that soon.
Also, you have a lot of research to do before you start talking to recruiters. You should have a really good idea of what you want before talking to them. Try to know these things:
-Where you want to work
-When you want to start
-What age group you want to teach
-Hours you want to work (time of day, etc)
-How much you want to be paid
There's a lot of info on Daves about a lot of this issues. The main reason you want to know this stuff is because recruiters will drown you in jobs. You need to know what you want so you can tell them "I don't want these jobs I want this, this, this, and this. This is what is important to me, this is what isn't." Then send them on their way to find you a job. You'll be able to turn down all the jobs you don't want and pick out the ones you do which will probably be 10% of the jobs, if that.
Okay, so, that's a bunch of info. If you have more questions, just post. I'll look into this thread pretty often. If you want to give me your email (you can't PM yet) you can post it here and I'll send you an email and you can ask me more things that way if little things come up. |
Wow, thanks for that post! Really helpful.
I don't actually have my graduation ceremony until 22nd July so I guess it might be best to wait a little while yet. Sent off my CRB application today though with all the necessary stuff to Disclosure Scotland, which is supposed to only take 5-10 days.
If you could send me an email that would be great, I have a few more things to ask but don't want to clog up the board. Such as the best way to research which location you want etc. Would you recommend Ilsan or is it better to try and get somewhere in SeoulBusan, or do you think that is too ambitious for a first timer? Email is [email protected]
Cheers
Sean |
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Zanniati
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| sean2406 wrote: |
Wow, thanks for that post! Really helpful.
I don't actually have my graduation ceremony until 22nd July so I guess it might be best to wait a little while yet. Sent off my CRB application today though with all the necessary stuff to Disclosure Scotland, which is supposed to only take 5-10 days.
If you could send me an email that would be great, I have a few more things to ask but don't want to clog up the board. Such as the best way to research which location you want etc. Would you recommend Ilsan or is it better to try and get somewhere in SeoulBusan, or do you think that is too ambitious for a first timer? Email is [email protected]
Cheers
Sean |
If you haven't graduated yet I agree that you should just get all your papers taken care of. It's also nice because if like me, you're offered a great job and need to start RIGHT AWAY to get the job, you'll be ready.
As far as where you want to work. I would definitely recommend being near Seoul. Getting a job here is wicked easy. The jobs are all over the place. You just need to find the right place.
Also, I sent you an email so we'll keep in touch. |
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sean2406
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Cheers mate.
Waiting sounds like the best option as I dont want to be sent jobs then having to say "ermmm actually I don't have my documents yet blah blah".
Probably wait till I've got my CRB and know my full degree results etc which is towards the end of this month. |
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