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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:50 am Post subject: |
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lol
Amusing thread.
Is there an age limit on joining? It's something I consider from time to time but much like decolyon, it hasn't been the right time yet or anything. |
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decolyon
Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
lol
Amusing thread.
Is there an age limit on joining? It's something I consider from time to time but much like decolyon, it hasn't been the right time yet or anything. |
42 to enlist.
35 for officers. (Only for active duty. Maybe reserves. National Guard is still 42)
But these numbers always fluctuate according to the need for the Army. In 2006 when Iraq was at it's peak and Afghanistan on the ramp up, it was 42, but they were handing waivers because they couldn't meet the recruiting goals.
Now with Iraq coming to a close and it looks like Afghanistan is winding down, they can afford to be a bit more picky.
These are only the Army rules and will be the most relaxed. The Marines cut off for officers is 28. And the Navy and Air Force have so many applications that they only take officers from enlisted personal that have done a few years. Even then their ages are lower. Late 20's to mid 30's I believe.
For me, the Army has always been the only real choice. Not only has it been a family thing (I'm kind of like Forest Gump - Men in my family served in Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea, and Germany - all at war time, no peace time deployments) but it's the only branch that I think has the total package. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect anyone who serves in another uniform as much I do a soldier, there are just things about the others that don't appeal to me.
Navy seems too far away from the action. Of course they have a role to play in war, but the US Navy is so overwhelmingly powerful over any other Navy in the world today, they'll never face a real opponent. For them, the heaviest it will get is firing missiles and big guns from miles and miles off shore. There are something like 24 or 25 supercarriers in service around the world today. Most first world countries have one each, the US has 12. And we're about to roll out a brand new fleet of Ford Class carriers that will be the most advanced piece of technology and deadliest war ship the world has ever seen set sail.
I think it's cool what the Air Force is doing with rockets and space ships (X37-B) but unless you're a pilot (something a fraction of the people that try to be actually become) you have to be heavy into engineering to get a good job there. So much of the non-flying officer gigs are maintenance or design, unless you have a degree in math or engineering, there's not really a place for you. Also, the AF is very political. It's run like a company instead of a branch of the military. Promotions are often based off networking and internal connections. I see enough of that in the private sector, I don't want that for my military career.
The Marines are kind of a one use force. Of course they have a variety of jobs, but most of them are highly specialized infantrymen. The Marines get the least amount of funding and are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of perks and commitments. You become a Marine because you want to shoot and kill and taste the blood of your enemy. That's all well and good, but it's not the only thing I want from my service. Plus, I'm too old, haha.
The Army is the largest branch. It has the most room to move between jobs if you need and the most room for advancement. The Army also has the greatest range of jobs. There are combat heavy jobs to desk jobs and every possible thing in between. The Army has it's own boats (mainly river stuff), planes, helicopters, and specialized infantrymen. It's like rolling up the other 3 into one (without big ass ships or fighter jets.) Plus, you're only a soldier in the Army. You're an airman, a sailor, or a marine, but you'r not a soldier unless you're in the army. That means a lot to me. The men in my family were soldiers, I just feel like I need to be one too. |
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Vox_Populi
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: |
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If I were in my 20s and had a bachelor's degree in whatever, I would probably seriously consider trying to get into a warrant officer in the Army and train to be a helicopter pilot. You could do that for a few years. It'd be one helluva cool job to be able to brag about. Then, you could basically write your own paycheck once you got out. 6 figures - no problem! Trained helicopter pilots are in EXTREMELY high demand in the private sector.
Anyway, I loved the Air Force and loved intel and loved being a linguist, BUT you're absolutely right about the politics thing. We called it the "good ole boy network." Basically, you have to be drinking buddies with all the right guys or there's just no way to make rank (of course, this varies to a very large degree depending on your job, but in my job, that's VERY MUCH how it was). |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Ramen wrote: |
had TS and was under PRP. i was never subjected to lie detector test. they just went around and interviewed whole buncha people and asked about me. people interviewed by feds thought i was in some sort of serious trouble.  |
This. And if you want to be an officer, expect to be tested (not for drugs) - they don't offer commissions to everyone just because they have a degree.
If it was me, I'd tell them that I'd smoked a few times and leave it at that. It's normal nowadays, even Clinton smoked but 'never inhaled' - so don't worry about that.
As far as your TS clearance goes, it's all about the interviews with people you've known going back to middle school. They interview people, and if the questions are answered properly, you'll get your TS clearance.
A good friend of mine married to a Kgal just went through this. His wife was offered a commission (she got citizenship first though) and she's shipping out soon.
Another guy I know married to a Kgal who just got her citizenship just got her TS clearance and is on her way to DLAB (?) for the defense language institute to take her Korean test and then she's off to Korea with no language training needed. Crypto-linguist. Her English is impeccable though! Her TS clearance took awhile.
Just remember, they have a lot of applicants to choose from these days because the military is not a bad place to be. Now that we're reducing the number of soldiers going to Afghanistan and Iraq, recruiters don't even worry about their quotas anymore. I remember having lunch with my friend a few months ago and he was complaining that the recruiters don't always return his calls, or seemed all that interested when they went in to talk to them.
Another thing, a LOT of people with degrees go into the military as enlisted E-4. Not everyone is offered a commission.
Another thing you have to worry about (especially the air farce) is RIF. RIF means "reduction in force" and it means if you don't make a certain rank by a certain time, you get kicked out. This is mostly true for officers, but with enlisted ranks, the problem becomes one of lack of promotions for certain MOS. Do your research.
The guy that said the age limit for ENLISTED is 42 is WRONG. The army is scaling back OCS as well. Enlisted age went down to 34 now.[/b]
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/07/army_ocs_071710w/
The age limit was changed in April. Do your research!
And to the poster that talked smack about the Navy: You sir, have not done your research. Nope, not one itty bitty bit.
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Vox_Populi wrote: |
Look, whatever the case is, you gotta be BRUTALLY honest. If they SOMEHOW find out later that you weren't completely honest, they're libel to throw you in the brig for fraudulent enlistment and then give you a dishonorable discharge.
If you're honest, the worst that can happen is they'll give you a lower security clearance. That's a pretty minor matter.
I knew a guy who lied about his drug use. He got into the Air Force and got through basic training and even started language school. Then they dug up an old charge where he'd been in possession of a tiny amount of marijuana. They arrested him and send him to prison at Leavenworth for a year and then gave him a dishonorable discharge.So tell "your friend" to either be 100% COMPLETELY HONEST or don't even attempt to join the military.
BTW, if you want to go into a military where they'll completely forgive and forget your past, you might want to look into the French Foreign Legion (yes it still exists). |
Unless the Air Force handles matters such as this completely different than the Navy, I call BS on this. The worst I have ever seen happen is you are brought up on charges at NJP for fraudulent enlistment. Officers can also be afforded NJP. |
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davai!
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a list of decisions for TS Clearances: http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/ Some very interesting cases. Note that these are for people in Contractor positions (not Military)
From those Ive talked to with TSCs, many said that honesty is the best policy - that is that they want to hear the dirt from YOU and not from your childhood neighbor, etc.
Some things that may get you turned down:
Current drug use (within the last 7 years or so)but many were accepted with more recent use having said that they either would agree to not smoke the herb or (more importantly) put that behind them INCLUDING agreeing to drop stoner friends or otherwise bad influences.
Bad or unusually high Debt. Probably as much or more of a factor in the decision... Got 20K or more in debt? You're more of a target to get paid off by foreign agents for the info you possess...
Got a judgment? If you are making payments or otherwise have a plan to pay it off you could be ok.
Things like traffic tickets will hurt your chances if you display a pattern of recklessness/ unwillingness to obey the law. Parking tickets? just don't ever tell them you have any. Those don't go to warrant (at least in Calif.) so they will never find out. he he
A young woman I dated had told me that she had a rough time with her TSC application as she had been arrested for public drunkenness. When they asked her, she didn't even remember any of that night. She still got the TSC.
Even the FBI has relaxed their stance on weed because they were turning down so many applicants they lost much of their pool.  |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| decolyon wrote: |
| These are only the Army rules and will be the most relaxed. The Marines cut off for officers is 28. And the Navy and Air Force have so many applications that they only take officers from enlisted personal that have done a few years. Even then their ages are lower. Late 20's to mid 30's I believe. |
Shame the Navy is so bloated, as Navy is in my family's background much like Army is in yours. But I don't think, given where I see myself in the next couple of years, that Navy would work out anyway.
Thanks for the info, though. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Today is the Army's birthday! HAPPY BIRTHDAY ARMY! |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Ramen wrote: |
| had TS and was under PRP. i was never subjected to lie detector test. they just went around and interviewed whole buncha people and asked about me. people interviewed by feds thought i was in some sort of serious trouble. |
This. And if you want to be an officer, expect to be tested (not for drugs) - they don't offer commissions to everyone just because they have a degree.
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i was never tested. they just asked me if i wanted to be an officer and get saluted from other people. it sounded cool so i said ok. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The army called, they want you to report for post-testing asap. |
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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you join the army as an officer? Do you like doing reams of paperwork and evaluating the performance of others constantly? Do you like to do even more paperwork when one of those troops has any sort of incidents including drinking underage or fighting? What a grand lot of baby sitting and office sitting you are looking forward to! Wow sounds amazingly exciting!
If I had a any kind of rad spy clearance I would not share it on an internet forum I might as well also claim to be an undercover super human Bourne Identity spy too. Anyhow, the military has gotten soft and politically correct I pity the Marine officer who has to file pounds of paperwork when one of his asked and told troops is beaten. You be better off in a Hawkwon teaching 4 year olds than supervising a bunch of drunk loving 18-20 year old army privates... maybe the Air Force would not be quite as bad as they trim much of the brainless losers before they join the chair force but the army will take the dregs - I still think they take punks on wavers with GREs and crime records.
And yes I said losers - there were more than a few Marines I met I would never choose to befriend outside the Marines either - mmm reminds me of some of the head cases here in Korea I avoid as well.
But, if you are a dope head you can be sure they WILL find out. It does not take a sleuth to take the information you give and question friends of relatives and persons who went to your schools. Perhaps you should jsut seek a job in the Merchant marine service then you could become a shrimp boat captain. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Toad wrote: |
Why would you join the army as an officer? Do you like doing reams of paperwork and evaluating the performance of others constantly? Do you like to do even more paperwork when one of those troops has any sort of incidents including drinking underage or fighting? What a grand lot of baby sitting and office sitting you are looking forward to! Wow sounds amazingly exciting!
If I had a any kind of rad spy clearance I would not share it on an internet forum I might as well also claim to be an undercover super human Bourne Identity spy too. Anyhow, the military has gotten soft and politically correct I pity the Marine officer who has to file pounds of paperwork when one of his asked and told troops is beaten. You be better off in a Hawkwon teaching 4 year olds than supervising a bunch of drunk loving 18-20 year old army privates... maybe the Air Force would not be quite as bad as they trim much of the brainless losers before they join the chair force but the army will take the dregs - I still think they take punks on wavers with GREs and crime records.
And yes I said losers - there were more than a few Marines I met I would never choose to befriend outside the Marines either - mmm reminds me of some of the head cases here in Korea I avoid as well.
But, if you are a dope head you can be sure they WILL find out. It does not take a sleuth to take the information you give and question friends of relatives and persons who went to your schools. Perhaps you should jsut seek a job in the Merchant marine service then you could become a shrimp boat captain. |
that's what i said. |
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Vox_Populi
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| lithium wrote: |
| Vox_Populi wrote: |
Look, whatever the case is, you gotta be BRUTALLY honest. If they SOMEHOW find out later that you weren't completely honest, they're libel to throw you in the brig for fraudulent enlistment and then give you a dishonorable discharge.
If you're honest, the worst that can happen is they'll give you a lower security clearance. That's a pretty minor matter.
I knew a guy who lied about his drug use. He got into the Air Force and got through basic training and even started language school. Then they dug up an old charge where he'd been in possession of a tiny amount of marijuana. They arrested him and send him to prison at Leavenworth for a year and then gave him a dishonorable discharge.So tell "your friend" to either be 100% COMPLETELY HONEST or don't even attempt to join the military.
BTW, if you want to go into a military where they'll completely forgive and forget your past, you might want to look into the French Foreign Legion (yes it still exists). |
Unless the Air Force handles matters such as this completely different than the Navy, I call BS on this. The worst I have ever seen happen is you are brought up on charges at NJP for fraudulent enlistment. Officers can also be afforded NJP. |
NOT BS...it really happened. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Toad wrote: |
| ...Anyhow, the military has gotten soft and politically correct I pity the Marine officer who has to file pounds of paperwork when one of his asked and told troops is beaten... |
We don't have code reds anymore. In fact, all of us in the Marines these days eat breakfast 300 yards from 40,000 cubans that are trained to kill us, so code reds are a non-issue. Plus, whatever Marine complains, we just transfer them off the base.
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