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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
Sure, perhaps I'm overthinking the kids' art. Just some small cultural difference, eh?
Well two months into my time in South Korea, a friend and I were on our lunch break and we saw a young teenage girl -- crossing the street and not looking where she was going -- get hit by a car and her body travel over 15 ft. Despite being within sight of probably more than 100 people, we were the first two people on the scene and were trying to call emergency numbers immediately. Meanwhile, few Koreans actually came over to try to assist in any way, did not try to call emergency numbers, etc (I at least tried to stand in front of the girl's body so incoming cars would slow down). One old woman put a parasol over the girl's body...that's basically it. The girl meanwhile lay motionless for 10 minutes when an ambulance finally came (even though the nearest hospital was only 5 minutes walk away). The EMTs walked out casually and seemed to have to sense of urgency, and clumsily hoisted the girl onto a stretcher. Meanwhile a group of onlooking teenage girls starting laughing uncontrollably at the scene. Me and my buddy were very pissed off about that. The whole time this was going on, the woman who hit the girl just sat in her car with no emotion on her face.
I've seen people in accidents in the West and the reaction is usually much more compassionate. |
Bystander Apathy
http://www.psychwiki.com/wiki/The_Bystander_Apathy_Effect |
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SNOTOSEOUL
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| it's most likely just the boys doing this right? None of my girls joke about death. I think kids are the same like that where ever |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
| Well two months into my time in South Korea, a friend and I were on our lunch break and we saw a young teenage girl -- crossing the street and not looking where she was going -- get hit by a car and her body travel over 15 ft. Despite being within sight of probably more than 100 people, we were the first two people on the scene and were trying to call emergency numbers immediately. Meanwhile, few Koreans actually came over to try to assist in any way, did not try to call emergency numbers, etc (I at least tried to stand in front of the girl's body so incoming cars would slow down). One old woman put a parasol over the girl's body...that's basically it. The girl meanwhile lay motionless for 10 minutes when an ambulance finally came (even though the nearest hospital was only 5 minutes walk away). The EMTs walked out casually and seemed to have to sense of urgency, and clumsily hoisted the girl onto a stretcher. Meanwhile a group of onlooking teenage girls starting laughing uncontrollably at the scene. Me and my buddy were very pissed off about that. The whole time this was going on, the woman who hit the girl just sat in her car with no emotion on her face. |
Very, very ugly. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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7-12 year old boys joking about violence against their teacher....
Are you serious OP? Do you even remember your childhood?
I remember all we did as boys was play pretend war and construct makeshift weapons and imagine killing each other or our teacher in gruesome ways. The hero was the kid whose parents let them play Duke Nukem or Wolfenstein 3D. There were certainly deaths in movies where we cheered or laughed. "Dahhhaha that fat loser Jek Porkins just crashed his X-Wing"
This is normal boy behavior.
What's next? Wondering why kids laugh about fart and poop related things and not the wit of Oscar Wilde? Why do kids here always want to eat pizza and hamburgers and not a vegetarian stir-fry? |
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Elle
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
7-12 year old boys joking about violence against their teacher....
Are you serious OP? Do you even remember your childhood?
I remember all we did as boys was play pretend war and construct makeshift weapons and imagine killing each other or our teacher in gruesome ways. The hero was the kid whose parents let them play Duke Nukem or Wolfenstein 3D. There were certainly deaths in movies where we cheered or laughed. "Dahhhaha that fat loser Jek Porkins just crashed his X-Wing"
This is normal boy behavior.
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^^ Agreed. As a person who has five nephews in the age group 5-10, I can attest to this. I actually found the drawings to be semi-cute in a mildly disturbing way. I especially thought the one where OP was getting crushed by his teacher's manual was quite poignant. Maybe this was the class's way of showing affection to him...in some odd way of expression |
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alistaircandlin
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
Sure, perhaps I'm overthinking the kids' art. Just some small cultural difference, eh?
a young teenage girl -- ... hit by a car a.... Meanwhile a group of onlooking teenage girls starting laughing uncontrollably at the scene.....The whole time this was going on, the woman who hit the girl just sat in her car with no emotion on her face.
I've seen people in accidents in the West and the reaction is usually much more compassionate. |
I apologise: I was talking balls. The incident you described sounds really disturbing. I can't imagine this happening in the West either. Actually I'd would say the opposite is generally the case: people often show their best sides in situations like this one.
| Steelrails wrote: |
This is normal boy behavior.
What's next? Wondering why kids laugh about fart and poop related things and not the wit of Oscar Wilde? Why do kids here always want to eat pizza and hamburgers and not a vegetarian stir-fry? |
On the other hand i think this is also true - many boys are just fascinated by guns, fighting and violence. I don't think this necessarily implies a problem - or, maybe it does, but at least it's not unusual, it's just a universal preoccupation of boys.
I think that often boys simply do not think about the reality of violence - they just see it as something cool and exciting. If you pointed out what violence and death is really like - the effects and so forth, and a kid showed no kind of empathy or emotional response, then I might start to worry.
The situation that cybermutiny described above with the car accident is genuinely worrying - a kind of emotional disengagement - I've never experienced that.
Last edited by alistaircandlin on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:34 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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alistaircandlin
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
Sure, perhaps I'm overthinking the kids' art. Just some small cultural difference, eh?
Well two months into my time in South Korea, a friend and I were on our lunch break and we saw a young teenage girl -- crossing the street and not looking where she was going -- get hit by a car and her body travel over 15 ft. Despite being within sight of probably more than 100 people, we were the first two people on the scene and were trying to call emergency numbers immediately. Meanwhile, few Koreans actually came over to try to assist in any way, did not try to call emergency numbers, etc (I at least tried to stand in front of the girl's body so incoming cars would slow down). One old woman put a parasol over the girl's body...that's basically it. The girl meanwhile lay motionless for 10 minutes when an ambulance finally came (even though the nearest hospital was only 5 minutes walk away). The EMTs walked out casually and seemed to have to sense of urgency, and clumsily hoisted the girl onto a stretcher. Meanwhile a group of onlooking teenage girls starting laughing uncontrollably at the scene. Me and my buddy were very pissed off about that. The whole time this was going on, the woman who hit the girl just sat in her car with no emotion on her face.
I've seen people in accidents in the West and the reaction is usually much more compassionate. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese
No, they aren't, and studies seem to indicate that the more people there are to witness an event, the less helpful each individual seems to be.
Woman in the car? Shock, probably.
Laughter among middle school girls? Also probably shock. Uncontrollable laughter is actually a fairly common reaction to a horrific sight.
Good on you for trying to help, and as you did, I think you earned the right to judge the others at the scene as harshly as you care to...but the fact of the matter is, humans have fragile little minds and egos, and most are incapable of acting appropriately or helpfully in emergency situations. Many people, regardless of their country of origin, are just useless when the chips are down. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought those pictures were awesome. I really like the one of you trying to break out of a lions stomach. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DorkothyParker wrote: |
I constantly threaten to murder my kids. I always say I will throw them out the window.
Not the older kids, though. I tell them, "Boom, boom. HEADSHOT!" |
That's something I like about Korea.
You can make those kinds of jokes and not receive a summons by the principal or an angry call by a parent at the least, or just as likely, make the evening news and have the ATF breaking down your door.
Seriously, when you consider all that, maybe their society is the normal one and ours is the one that has gone insane. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| cybermutiny wrote: |
Sure, perhaps I'm overthinking the kids' art. Just some small cultural difference, eh?
Well two months into my time in South Korea, a friend and I were on our lunch break and we saw a young teenage girl -- crossing the street and not looking where she was going -- get hit by a car and her body travel over 15 ft. Despite being within sight of probably more than 100 people, we were the first two people on the scene and were trying to call emergency numbers immediately. Meanwhile, few Koreans actually came over to try to assist in any way, did not try to call emergency numbers, etc (I at least tried to stand in front of the girl's body so incoming cars would slow down). One old woman put a parasol over the girl's body...that's basically it. The girl meanwhile lay motionless for 10 minutes when an ambulance finally came (even though the nearest hospital was only 5 minutes walk away). The EMTs walked out casually and seemed to have to sense of urgency, and clumsily hoisted the girl onto a stretcher. Meanwhile a group of onlooking teenage girls starting laughing uncontrollably at the scene. Me and my buddy were very pissed off about that. The whole time this was going on, the woman who hit the girl just sat in her car with no emotion on her face.
I've seen people in accidents in the West and the reaction is usually much more compassionate. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese
No, they aren't, and studies seem to indicate that the more people there are to witness an event, the less helpful each individual seems to be.
Woman in the car? Shock, probably.
Laughter among middle school girls? Also probably shock. Uncontrollable laughter is actually a fairly common reaction to a horrific sight.
Good on you for trying to help, and as you did, I think you earned the right to judge the others at the scene as harshly as you care to...but the fact of the matter is, humans have fragile little minds and egos, and most are incapable of acting appropriately or helpfully in emergency situations. Many people, regardless of their country of origin, are just useless when the chips are down. |
Asian culture 101: Asians tend to smile or laugh when nervous and unsure what to do.
To a westerner who is unaware of this it is quite vexing. Quite useful to know for businessmen too, when every Asian customer is just smiling and not saying a word, then it isn't going too well. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Korean kids draw me dying. Why so whimsical about death? |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
One of the things that kind of disturbed me when I first started teaching English in Korea is how young students (even kindergarten kids) talk about death like it's a laughing matter. For example, while taking attendance in the morning, if a student was absent I would often ask "Why is Andy absent today? Is he sick?" To which Korean students 9 times out of 10 would yell "Andy died! Hahaha". I also had a particularly argumentative class where students would often tell each other to "go die" so casually that it barely seemed offensive anymore.
I had a 7-year old student (western age) who took particular glee in drawing me dying in various ways. I thought the drawings were interesting so I've posted some of them.
Still, when I think back to my own childhood I rarely remember such grave insults being thrown around so whimsically. Has anyone else experienced this in their classes? |
I remember getting upset when hearing my students make such jokes. I think it's not worth getting upset over. Do you know why? It's not like we have a better view of death in Western culture. We try to hide old people, we try to hide death, so in some ways we are more and more insensitive to old people, don't want to discuss death at all, which is not truly natural or healthy, but we take that for granted, you know? Alan Watts in the 1960s discussed death, and how we need to talk about it, and we don't want to discuss it.
http://thatsreallywild.com/life-after-death/alan-watts-death/ |
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murmanjake
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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