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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| HymanKaplan wrote: |
| I had a fantasy about living abroad most of my life but it was always Mexico or Turkey. Since I couldn't find a job in Turkey |
I was always getting sent job invitations for Turkey up to about 3 years ago. has the ESL market there crashed? |
Is that a culture you have an interest in, or were you just casting about for the next place that might have teaching opportunities? Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
For myself, I have a very deeply-felt respect for the Korean people and the toughness of Spirit which has enabled them to survive. The fact is, though, that I was raised in the American Midwest and there is no way in the World I will ever be "Korean". I can respect the culture and move through it, leaving as small a wake as possible, but I will always be an outsider and I have no illusions about that. My goal is to be as fine a guest as possible for however long I might be there.
Bruce |
Hey Bruce baby!!! This should be made a sticky for anyone asked a letter of motivation. Korean employers will lap this sort of stuff up. You didn't crib it directly from your covering letter did you?
After a few months in Korea if you ever get to revisit your words you'll have a good old mirthless laugh.
"Leaving as small a wake as possible", will really shake you up, that's a priceless one!! |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Just for the sake of discussion, where we lived in Busan we had a clear ocean view from our appartment. From our balcony we could see smaller mountains to the side, the ocean in front and the bridge in the distance. Behind our place was a nice green mountain with tons of hiking. The open market nearby was teeming with actitivy and people. That to us was nice Ed. It was also beautiful to us.
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This is just the kind of thing a Korean would say. You can show them a stunning beach like the one in 'The Beach' with white sands and crystal clear water, palm trees, not a soul on it and everything and they will say 'I prefer Haeundae'. |
Wow.
Someone's really coming across as closed minded in this little exchange.
And it ain't Patrick. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Hey Bruce... I only just saw the other thread where you say your age and other perceived obstacles..
So apologies if I came over as not on your side...
Not sure if me being on your side is going to be enough though. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
Someone's really coming across as closed minded in this little exchange.
And it ain't Patrick. |
Hey, here's an idea. As this is a discussion board, why don't you kind of say why it is you don't agree with what the guy you don't agree with said so he can kind of discuss or counter what your opinion is so we can have a kind of discussion about it. No? Ok, whatever. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
Hey Bruce... I only just saw the other thread where you say your age and other perceived obstacles..
So apologies if I came over as not on your side...
Not sure if me being on your side is going to be enough though. |
Nottaproblem....no harm; no foul. 
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Wow.
Someone's really coming across as closed minded in this little exchange.
And it ain't Patrick. |
Hey, here's an idea. As this is a discussion board, why don't you kind of say why it is you don't agree with what the guy you don't agree with said so he can kind of discuss or counter what your opinion is so we can have a kind of discussion about it. No? Ok, whatever. |
I think you got the idea.
But in case you need it spelled out for you....
Patrick said he loved his neighborhood in Busan, and thought it was beautiful.
Bizarrely, somehow you managed to conflate that with him believing that Haeundae Beach is the most beautiful beach in the world because it's Korean. You're putting a bunch of words into his mouth that seem to serve very little purpose other than insulting Patrick, and Koreans. And yes, that made you seem closed-minded.
At the risk of coming across as an uber-pro-Korean-nationalist, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Patrick.
I think the beaches of Busan are nice, too. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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You're putting a bunch of words into his mouth that seem to serve very little purpose other than insulting Patrick, and Koreans. And yes, that made you seem closed-minded.
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Not at all. You claim I am insulting people when all I said was that Koreans have a tendency to like things just because they're Korean. Show me where I say that's a bad thing. That could be a good quality in a lot of people's eyes. As for saying that Patrick was speaking like a Korean I'm sure he would take that as a compliment. As indeed he said he did
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| I think the beaches of Busan are nice, too |
They're ok but they're nothing special. There are lots of countries with much nicer beaches. You're going to say that's just my opinion now but it's also the opinion of the vast majority of people outside Korea. That's why very few tourists come here on beach holidays. Why is that such a difficult concept for a lot of people on here to accept? |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anyone posting in this thread is arguing that Haeundae Beach is the best in the world. All Patrick said is that it (or whichever beach he could see from his apartment in Busan) was beautiful to him and his family. Hell, I don't even think Haeundae is the nicest beach in Busan. You're the one who started throwing in comparatives and superlatives.
I have a hard time seeing how your comment could have been seen as complimentary. It seemed to imply that Patrick and Koreans are delusional about the beauty of Haeundae beach. But if you insist that I'm just crazy and reading that wrong, I suppose I'll take you at your word. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| I have a hard time seeing how your comment could have been seen as complimentary |
My remark about how Koreans look at things wasn't supposed to be complimentary or critical it was an observation. As I made it clear in a later post when I said this
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| I'm not saying that's the wrong way of assessing a place, I'm just saying it's different to how a Westerner would probably assess it |
I said PatrickGBusan would probably view being likened to a Korean as complimentary, being as how he likes everything about the place so much. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Ed, I am not Korean and you calling me Korean in mind does not insult me (even if, with all these post of yours, do mean it as an insult).
I do not love or like everything in Korea. that is you putting words in my mouth again.
I'll not get drawn back into this sterile debate anyway, especially now that its clearer that all you are going on about is trying to pin me as some sort of apologist and trying to call me Korean (that type of pseudo insult speaks a lot more about how closed minded you are by the way than it does about me).
If you want to send more such comments my way, use the pm function and stop polluting the thread. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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As I read the exchange I was thinking that maybe its healthy not to view Koreans with either dark glasses, or rosey ones either. In my own life I have run into some pretty arrogant and predatory individuals. I have also met people of Honor who have been tolerant, compassionate and wise. The challenge for me has usually been to withold judgement until the person before me has revealed themselves.
What I have also noticed is that urban areas seem to bring out the darker side of people. As much as I enjoy visiting Grant Park, the Field Museum or taking in a game at Wrigley Field, city-people have a very definite "edge" compared to folks in suburban and rural areas. I wonder if the Korean Nationalism alluded to is as prevalent in the areas of Korea away from the cosmopolitan centers. Thoughts? Comments?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
About 20 years here. The people who I've come to know, including myself, who tend to adapt over the long haul and be happy have tended to put both feet in the country. In other words, they make that mental leap and stop thinking about their time here as temporary until they can get 'back home.' They have a career here, friends here, and a place to hang their hat here. They take advantage of their time off to travel, visit their relatives, or to just chill out.
Those I've known over the years who have been here quite some time but still hadn't made any structural (e.g. increasing their standard of living) or emotional investment (e.g. relationships, with Koreans or otherwise, or investment in the language and culture) see themselves as just treading water and wasting time, and they're generally not happy. In the end, they see their time in Korea as eating away at their POTENTIAL career or personal life 'back home.'
Life if what happens when you're making plans to do something else. Wish I knew who said it.
There was a fantastic article in The Economist some time ago expat life. Try to find it. Great stuff. |
This is an interesting discussion, even if the last half of it has been derailed. I went and Googled the Economist and "Expat" and found a few interesting articles regarding expat life in Asia. I didn't find the exact article mentioned above but one I did read was interesting.
There are some very good points mentioned in the first 3 pages of this thread. Well worth the read for anyone here considering a long term residence outside of their home country. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
About 20 years here. The people who I've come to know, including myself, who tend to adapt over the long haul and be happy have tended to put both feet in the country. In other words, they make that mental leap and stop thinking about their time here as temporary until they can get 'back home.' They have a career here, friends here, and a place to hang their hat here. They take advantage of their time off to travel, visit their relatives, or to just chill out.
Those I've known over the years who have been here quite some time but still hadn't made any structural (e.g. increasing their standard of living) or emotional investment (e.g. relationships, with Koreans or otherwise, or investment in the language and culture) see themselves as just treading water and wasting time, and they're generally not happy. In the end, they see their time in Korea as eating away at their POTENTIAL career or personal life 'back home.'
Life if what happens when you're making plans to do something else. Wish I knew who said it.
There was a fantastic article in The Economist some time ago expat life. Try to find it. Great stuff. |
This is an interesting discussion, even if the last half of it has been derailed. I went and Googled the Economist and "Expat" and found a few interesting articles regarding expat life in Asia. I didn't find the exact article mentioned above but one I did read was interesting.
There are some very good points mentioned in the first 3 pages of this thread. Well worth the read for anyone here considering a long term residence outside of their home country. |
Indeed TECO.
Perhaps a mod could clean it up! (including my ill advised responses that contributed to derail this good discussion).... |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| Is that a culture you have an interest in, or were you just casting about for the next place |
Turkey? No..no interest. Just, if you post up your resume, you are likely to get job offers from Turkey. It is (or was) a significant esl destination.
| Quote: |
| As I read the exchange I was thinking that maybe its healthy not to view Koreans with either dark glasses, or rosey ones either. In my own life I have run into some pretty arrogant and predatory individuals. |
In my time I have been ripped off about 1M won by koreans in the esl game. Its the predatory recruiters, wonjangs and cowboys that are often a foreigners first bad taste of this country. That leaves a mark on many people.
Aside from the unscrupuolous welcoming commitee, you will find that many koreans are decent, warm-hearted and kind. |
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