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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| jodemas2 wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| jodemas2 wrote: |
| 2. The world media have shown a shocking lack of curiosity. ... |
Imagine if Israel was doing the bombing?  |
That lack of curiosity may not last too long:
Puppet Regime in Benghazi Would Recognize Zionist Entity
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| The French Zionist "BHL" Bernard Henri Levy, responsible for misleading Jewish-Hungarian, paedophile-sympathizer and CIA-stooge Sarkozy into believing that occupying Libya would be a "cake walk", said he delivered a message on Thursday from Libyan terrorist rats in Benghazi to the Zionist premier saying that they would seek diplomatic ties with Israhell if they came to power. |
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I really hate to say this, but what kind of civil discussion is possible if you quote essentially vitriolic propaganda? It's not news when what you're quoting calls Israel- Israhell, and it attacks Sarkozy for being part Jewish. This pushes forward the idea that to be Jewish is to be evil. This propaganda with clear bigotry crosses the line.
'Rico |
No surprise here...it's from Mathaba which I've said before is not a legitimate news source. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| jodemas2 wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| jodemas2 wrote: |
| 2. The world media have shown a shocking lack of curiosity. ... |
Imagine if Israel was doing the bombing? |
That lack of curiosity may not last too long:
Puppet Regime in Benghazi Would Recognize Zionist Entity
| Quote: |
| The French Zionist "BHL" Bernard Henri Levy, responsible for misleading Jewish-Hungarian, paedophile-sympathizer and CIA-stooge Sarkozy into believing that occupying Libya would be a "cake walk", said he delivered a message on Thursday from Libyan terrorist rats in Benghazi to the Zionist premier saying that they would seek diplomatic ties with Israhell if they came to power. |
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I really hate to say this, but what kind of civil discussion is possible if you quote essentially vitriolic propaganda? It's not news when what you're quoting calls Israel- Israhell, and it attacks Sarkozy for being part Jewish. This pushes forward the idea that to be Jewish is to be evil. This propaganda with clear bigotry crosses the line.
'Rico |
No surprise here...it's from Mathaba which I've said before is not a legitimate news source. |
I think I've seen that site being used before. It's one thing to quote from someone's blog, but another to quote a site that refers to a certain ethnic group in a derogatory manner. In general, people are expected to site news sites, and if they use a blog or something not very mainstream it shouldn't include the trashing of certain groups. I pointed out earlier when a poster quoted some article without posting a link because users need to know that other users are making an effort to use legitimate sites. Posters have to be civil and accountable to each other as much as possible.
Needless to say, if we see things like that quoted from whatever site, then we will possibly terminate a user's account, and it doesn't matter which ethnic group we're talking about.
Thanks,
'Rico |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Germany has recognised Libya's rebels as "the legitimate representatives of the Libyan people".
"We want a free Libya, in peace and democracy without [Muammar] Gaddafi," Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said in the rebel stronghold Benghazi.
About a dozen states have recognised the National Transitional Council.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13753422
That's a pretty significant step in itself, but the article has another point as well. The rebels tried to take Zawiya which is between Tripoli and the Tunisian border. They failed. But the important point, it seems to me, is that they are now strong enough to try. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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^ Mathaba gets it right (and wrong) just as much as the NY Times, CNN, BBC, or any other biased source (which they all are). Refute the claim, not the source.
___________________________________________________
LIBYA - Behind the phony ICC 'rape' charges:
ARE NATO FORCES PREPARING A GROUND ATTACK?
by Sara Flounders
International Action Center
Without presenting a shred of reliable evidence, NATO and International Criminal Court conspirators are charging the Libyan government with conspiracy to rape -- not only rape as the "collateral damage" of war, but rape as a political weapon.
This charge of an orchestrated future campaign of rapes was made at a major press conference called by the lead prosecutor of the International Criminal Court on June 8, 2011. The even wilder unsubstantiated ICC charge that Libya plans to mass distribute Viagra to its troops confirms this as the most tawdry and threadbare form of war propaganda.
It is important to understand that NATO countries with the full complicity of the corporate media and the ICC are spreading this Big Lie in order to win support for and close down all opposition to a ground assault of Libya, something that would otherwise be unpopular both in Europe and the United States. This wild charge adds to the evidence of a massive escalation in bombing urban targets in Libya, the use of British and French helicopters that give close support to ground troops and the positioning in the Mediterranean off Libya of U.S. warships that can quickly land troops. The NATO alliance is desperate to put Libya beyond all discussion or defense and raise the NATO war to the level of a Holy Crusade to defend women.
The charge of rape as a political weapon was spread -- without evidence -- against Serb forces to justify U.S. plans for the first NATO bombing campaign in the history of the military alliance in 1994 in Bosnia and was used again in 1999 in Serbia in the first NATO occupation. The rape charge was used to soften up the U.S. and European population for the criminal war against Yugoslavia. Now a similar plan is in the works for Libya... |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
^ Mathaba gets it right (and wrong) just as much as the NY Times, CNN, BBC, or any other biased source (which they all are). Refute the claim, not the source.
___________________________________________________
LIBYA - Behind the phony ICC 'rape' charges:
ARE NATO FORCES PREPARING A GROUND ATTACK?
by Sara Flounders
International Action Center
Without presenting a shred of reliable evidence, |
Of course, witnesses and victims don't constitute evidence in the beautiful Arab Jamirihiya in the golden glow of the Fatha.
| Quote: |
| NATO and International Criminal Court conspirators are charging the Libyan government with conspiracy to rape -- not only rape as the "collateral damage" of war, but rape as a political weapon. |
Outrageous! Who would want to rape that filthy harlott Iman Al Obeidi anyway?
| Quote: |
| This charge of an orchestrated future campaign of rapes was made at a major press conference called by the lead prosecutor of the International Criminal Court on June 8, 2011. |
Ridiculous!
| Quote: |
| The even wilder unsubstantiated ICC charge that Libya plans to mass distribute Viagra to its troops confirms this as the most tawdry and threadbare form of war propaganda. |
How dare they suggest that we can't do a good day's raping without filthy western haram drugs!
BIG LIE!
| Quote: |
| Holy Crusade to defend women. |
Crusaders! Oh my God! Crusaders!!!!!!!!
| Quote: |
| The charge of rape as a political weapon was spread -- without evidence -- against Serb forces to justify U.S. plans for the first NATO bombing campaign in the history of the military alliance in 1994 in Bosnia and was used again in 1999 in Serbia in the first NATO occupation. The rape charge was used to soften up the U.S. and European population for the criminal war against Yugoslavia. Now a similar plan is in the works for Libya... |
Yes! Those Serbs might have gunned down 8,000 Muslim brothers but they didn't rape anyone!! Rape is wrong!!!
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It is utterly astonishing that western, university-educated people can be taken in by this crap. Dumb as *beep*. |
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| It is utterly astonishing that western, university-educated people can be taken in by this crap. Dumb as *beep*. |
What is astonishing is that western, university-educated people can remain blind to the political use of the rape charge whenever it is convenient (as in all the examples cited in the article, as well as Wikileaks, the IMF guy, etc.) |
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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TIME TO ACT TO END THE ATTACKS ON LIBYA
Congressional opposition to the president regarding the authorization of U.S. military attacks against Libya has opened up a path for a more popular participation in the struggle to end U.S. aggression in North Africa. An IAC petition opened a light on this issue: violation of the War Powers Act. The mass unhappiness with the war on Libya -- 70 percent of the population opposing that war in polls -- is reflected in the act of Congress challenging the administration, whatever the motivation of the individuals. This mass displeasure is also reflected in the actions of political figures like Cynthia McKinney in traveling to Libya to bring back the truth...
10 U.S. reps sue Obama over Libya strikes |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of Big Lies, how about NATO is bombing Libya "to protect civilians"?
NATO kills family to protect civilians
Wing Commander Mike Bracken says that Nato is investigating the incident
Libya Crisis
* 'Haunted by deaths'
* Rape victims face 'honour killings'
* Is Nato too slow?
* Rebels armed via Tunisia
Nato is investigating Libyan government claims that it bombed a residential area of the capital, Tripoli, killing several civilians.
Bodies were pulled from a badly damaged three-storey house after the alleged raid in the Souk al-Juma district.
Nato says a surface-to-air missile site in northern Tripoli was successfully hit overnight, but it has previously admitted mistakes in targeting.
It is enforcing a UN resolution to defend Libyans from pro-Gaddafi forces.
If it is confirmed that Nato planes did indeed bomb a civilian area by mistake, serious questions will be raised about the conduct of the military campaign in Libya, says the BBC's Jeremy Bowen in Tripoli.
'Minimalise civilian risk'
Sunday's alleged attack, in one of Tripoli's poorer neighbourhoods, happened shortly after midnight, Libyan officials say.... |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
Speaking of Big Lies, how about NATO is bombing Libya "to protect civilians"?
NATO kills family to protect civilians
Wing Commander Mike Bracken says that Nato is investigating the incident. |
An update on this story is that NATO has admitted responsibility, stating that the mis-targeted strikes were caused by a weapons systems failure.
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/06/201161920139227219.html
Is that a big lie like the moon landings and 9/11? Do you think they were trying to kill that family and are covering it up? Hm? |
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
| ^ OK, NATO admitted it |
It's not a BIG LIE though is? But you carry on and believe everything Mathaba tells you. Knock yourself out. Just don't bring it here; presumably you have noted Enrico Palazzo's excellent post above.
| Quote: |
| so it's OK now that that family is dead. |
Who said that? Nobody has said that.
You can do maths can't you? Wikipedia's analysis, even taking the Tripoli Government line about casualties as read, will give you a more objective picture. Read, read, read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2011_Libyan_civil_war
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Loyalist forces
On February 22, the International Coalition Against War Criminals gave an estimate that 519 people had died, 3,980 were wounded and over 1,500 were missing.
Human Rights Watch have estimated that at least 233 people had been killed by February 22.
On February 23, Italy's Minister of Foreign Affairs Franco Frattini stated that according to his information 1,000 people had died so far.
On February 24, the IFHR said that 130 soldiers had been executed in Benghazi and al-Baida, after they mutinied and sided with the protesters.
On February 25, Navi Pillay, the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations, said that reports indicated that "thousands may have been killed or injured".
On March 20, Abdul Hafiz Ghoga, spokesman for the National Transitional Council, stated that "more than 8,000" people are killed as a result of the uprising. |
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Anti-Gaddafi forces
Among the security forces there had been more than 750 dead, including civilians in support of the government, alleged mercenaries and government soldiers. There have been many reports that members of the security forces have been killed by both the government and the opposition.
On February 18, two policemen were hanged by protesters in Benghazi. Also, on the same day, 50 alleged African mercenaries, mostly from Chad, were executed by the protesters in al-Baida. Some of them were killed when protestors burned down the police station in which they locked them up and at least 15 were lynched in front of the courthouse in al-Baida. The bodies of some of them were put on display and caught on video. By February 23, the government confirmed that 111 soldiers had been killed.
On February 23, a group of 22 government soldiers attempted to make a breakout from an air base near Derna, which had been under siege for days by rebel fighters. Within hours, all of them were captured and eventualy 12 of them were shot execution style while a 13th was hanged by the opposition forces. Between February 15 and May 22, 37 former government loyalists were killed in Benghazi in revenge killings by some opposition groups.
Toward the end of the Battle of Misrata, at least 27 sub-Saharan Africans from Mali, Niger or Chad, who were accused of being mercenaries, were executed by rebel forces. |
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Coalition forces
The Libyan official sources claimed that at least between 64 and 90 people were killed during the bombardments on the first two days of the U.N. intervention and another 150 had been wounded. The Vatican news agency confirmed that in Tripoli alone, at least 40 civilians died as a result of the bombing campaign. According to the Libyan Health office, the airstrikes killed 718 civilians and wounded 4,067, 433 seriously, by May 26.
On April 1, NATO airstrikes killed 14 rebel fighters and wounded seven more on the frontline at Brega.
On April 7, news reports surfaced that NATO bombers killed 10-13 rebels and wounded 14-22 near the eastern oil town of Brega.
On April 27, at least one NATO warplane attacked the Libyan rebel forces position near the besieged city of Misrata, killing 12 fighters and wounding five others.
On June 19, at least nine civilians were killed in a NATO airstrike on Tripoli. Reporters saw bodies being pulled out of a destroyed bulding. NATO acknoledged being responsible for the civilians deaths.
On June 20, 15 civilians including three children were killed by another NATO airstrike on Sorman. |
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
| ^ OK, NATO admitted it |
It's not a BIG LIE though is? But you carry on and believe everything Mathaba tells you. Knock yourself out. Just don't bring it here; presumably you have noted Enrico Palazzo's excellent post above. |
I am sorry that you feel the need to falsely accuse me of using Mathaba when I clearly stated that the report is from CNN.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| so it's OK now that that family is dead. |
Who said that? Nobody has said that. |
Let's review. I posted saying NATO had killed a family. You responded by saying NATO admitted it, as if that somehow made it OK. Otherwise, what on earth does NATO admitting it have to do with it?
| Quote: |
You can do maths can't you? Wikipedia's analysis, even taking the Tripoli Government line about casualties as read, will give you a more objective picture. Read, read, read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2011_Libyan_civil_war
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Loyalist forces
On February 22, the International Coalition Against War Criminals gave an estimate that 519 people had died, 3,980 were wounded and over 1,500 were missing.
Human Rights Watch have estimated that at least 233 people had been killed by February 22.
On February 23, Italy's Minister of Foreign Affairs Franco Frattini stated that according to his information 1,000 people had died so far.
On February 24, the IFHR said that 130 soldiers had been executed in Benghazi and al-Baida, after they mutinied and sided with the protesters.
On February 25, Navi Pillay, the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations, said that reports indicated that "thousands may have been killed or injured".
On March 20, Abdul Hafiz Ghoga, spokesman for the National Transitional Council, stated that "more than 8,000" people are killed as a result of the uprising. |
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Anti-Gaddafi forces
Among the security forces there had been more than 750 dead, including civilians in support of the government, alleged mercenaries and government soldiers. There have been many reports that members of the security forces have been killed by both the government and the opposition.
On February 18, two policemen were hanged by protesters in Benghazi. Also, on the same day, 50 alleged African mercenaries, mostly from Chad, were executed by the protesters in al-Baida. Some of them were killed when protestors burned down the police station in which they locked them up and at least 15 were lynched in front of the courthouse in al-Baida. The bodies of some of them were put on display and caught on video. By February 23, the government confirmed that 111 soldiers had been killed.
On February 23, a group of 22 government soldiers attempted to make a breakout from an air base near Derna, which had been under siege for days by rebel fighters. Within hours, all of them were captured and eventualy 12 of them were shot execution style while a 13th was hanged by the opposition forces. Between February 15 and May 22, 37 former government loyalists were killed in Benghazi in revenge killings by some opposition groups.
Toward the end of the Battle of Misrata, at least 27 sub-Saharan Africans from Mali, Niger or Chad, who were accused of being mercenaries, were executed by rebel forces. |
| Quote: |
Deaths caused by Coalition forces
The Libyan official sources claimed that at least between 64 and 90 people were killed during the bombardments on the first two days of the U.N. intervention and another 150 had been wounded. The Vatican news agency confirmed that in Tripoli alone, at least 40 civilians died as a result of the bombing campaign. According to the Libyan Health office, the airstrikes killed 718 civilians and wounded 4,067, 433 seriously, by May 26.
On April 1, NATO airstrikes killed 14 rebel fighters and wounded seven more on the frontline at Brega.
On April 7, news reports surfaced that NATO bombers killed 10-13 rebels and wounded 14-22 near the eastern oil town of Brega.
On April 27, at least one NATO warplane attacked the Libyan rebel forces position near the besieged city of Misrata, killing 12 fighters and wounding five others.
On June 19, at least nine civilians were killed in a NATO airstrike on Tripoli. Reporters saw bodies being pulled out of a destroyed bulding. NATO acknoledged being responsible for the civilians deaths.
On June 20, 15 civilians including three children were killed by another NATO airstrike on Sorman. |
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OK, let's do the math of just what you have posted here:
Deaths by Loyalist forces: the credible numbers there range from 130 to 519. Some Italian minister's estimate is not worthy of serious consideration, and you must be joking by giving the TNC's estimate. No bias there.
Deaths by anti-Qaddafi forces: 750
Deaths by Coalition forces: >64 + 718 = ~800
Thus, we have the following totals:
Killed by opposition: >1500
Killed by loyalists: let's give you the high estimate - 519.
Now, what was your point? |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| Friend Lee Ghost wrote: |
| ^ OK, NATO admitted it |
It's not a BIG LIE though is? But you carry on and believe everything Mathaba tells you. Knock yourself out. Just don't bring it here; presumably you have noted Enrico Palazzo's excellent post above. |
I am sorry that you feel the need to falsely accuse me of using Mathaba when I clearly stated that the report is from CNN.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| so it's OK now that that family is dead. |
Who said that? Nobody has said that. |
Let's review. I posted saying NATO had killed a family. You responded by saying NATO admitted it, as if that somehow made it OK. Otherwise, what on earth does NATO admitting it have to do with it? |
Yes, lets back up. You said that NATO's mission to protect civilians was a big LIE. You based that on the fact that civilians in Tripoli had been killed in the NATO airstrike on Sunday. I said that it was not a big lie, because they admitted openly that a systems failure in their (NATO) weaponry had caused the misplaced bombing. They were aiming at something else and something went wrong. They admit that. It is not a lie. I'm not saying it isn't terrible, I lived in Tripoli until February this year - it makes me furious that they released faulty weapons. But it is not a lie.
| Quote: |
| Now, what was your point? |
That you need to read more. You post a CNN article about demos in Tripoli, the same demos from the same paid up Ghaddaffi people that have been at it for months.
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| and you must be joking by giving the TNC's estimate. No bias there. |
I didn't give just the TNC estimate. I gave everyone's estimate via wikipedia including those of the Ghaddaffi government. Can you not see that?
And you should talk about bias. I'm objective, you're not.
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| I am sorry that you feel the need to falsely accuse me of using Mathaba when I clearly stated that the report is from CNN. |
Oh MY BAD. Forgive me for confusing IAC with Mathaba. Completely different. |
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