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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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southernman
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again
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 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's just your boss, maybe he's really more concerned about his money (i.e students numbers) than anything else.
My old Hagwon boss actually stuck up for me when he got a complaint from a student's parent. On the one ocassion I know about , anyway.
A student had spat in my water bottle, I took him outside and was a tad angry to say the least. he went home and told his mother that I had threatened him by pointing a pen at his throat. When my boss questioned me about it I said that yes I probably had pointed a pen at his throat. Anyway, the boss had to ring back the mother and apologise to her. I had to agree to not get angry anymore and life went on. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisLamp wrote: |
| I just feel that since I'm 3/4 of the way through my contract I've earned the right to a little autonomy in my classroom. If I think a kid is being disruptive and should be removed, my boss should trust me. This isn't "blind" support, it's trusting the people you've hired to do their job, without undermining and micromanaging. |
Sounds like blind support to me, if you think he shouldn't have gotten the student(s) side of the story as well. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wouldn't sweat this particular situation too much - venting is fine of course lol
But it would suck if the situation had been more serious. A student I taught back in my first year hated my class and eventually told his mom I threw scissors at him. As I lacking the insanity required to do such an act, I was rather shocked and upset when the academic supervisor questioned me about it.
Worst part was the kid wasn't moved out of the class. Of two energetic and notoriously lazy boys. That I taught almost the entire year. Ah, the memories...  |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
Wouldn't sweat this particular situation too much - venting is fine of course lol
But it would suck if the situation had been more serious. A student I taught back in my first year hated my class and eventually told his mom I threw scissors at him. As I lacking the insanity required to do such an act, I was rather shocked and upset when the academic supervisor questioned me about it.
Worst part was the kid wasn't moved out of the class. Of two energetic and notoriously lazy boys. That I taught almost the entire year. Ah, the memories... |
your mistake was that you missed.  |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
That raelly sucks, but I think that a lot of people who have taught before you have lied, cheated, stolen, ran, etc. So there's lots of mutual mistrust between students and admins. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
Good on you. I kick kids out of my classes quite frequently. The schools don't support me at all. They don't care about my discipline, nor do they question me about it. When I boot them, the kid is gone, and that's all I care about. |
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burnt-toast
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Its cultural. In my experience, in nearly all situations a Korean will support another Korean over a foreigner, end of.
You just have to remember this and move on, otherwise you will become angry and bitter and end up telling people you dont know about it online, oh, wait. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:54 am Post subject: |
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This is why I could not foresee making a career in teaching, in what other profession could the word of a ten year old delinquent get you into trouble.
I had a situation where I reported the use of obscene language by this one kid only to be informed that the kid in question denied that she had and so they didn�t do anything. So my word meant less than that of a 10 year old.
Good thing the class backed you up. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| The boss, the school, or the principal should not blindly support a teacher. They should interview the students and act appropriately. |
I didn't say he should, I just don't think confronting the teacher in front of the class was the best way of handling the situation.
Interviewing the students after class is probably the best solution.
I was responding to the notion that the boss "supported" the teacher in this case, when clearly he did not.
He needlessly humiliated the teacher in front of the rest of the class.[/quote]
Hold your horses, the OP did not say his boss confronted him at all. He said his boss listened to what he said and then asked the class for confirmation of what happened.
That seems pretty normal to me and it is not a lack of trust in the teacher or thinking the teacher is wrong. It is simply smart to get all the facts, just in case.
Now by doing this the boss showed that when this teacher does something, he has the backing of management and did so IN FRONT of the teachers class and taking away a bit of face from the disruptive student.
I really think the OP over reacted on this one but thats just my take on it.
Finally this was not some Korean vs Foreigner thing. Those people making this point are just stirring the pot. It was a teacher and employee thing and also a director and student thing.
At the very least, the boss has to think of the parents and his school as well so asking the students what happened is smart and reasonable. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| The boss, the school, or the principal should not blindly support a teacher. They should interview the students and act appropriately. |
I didn't say he should, I just don't think confronting the teacher in front of the class was the best way of handling the situation.
Interviewing the students after class is probably the best solution.
I was responding to the notion that the boss "supported" the teacher in this case, when clearly he did not.
He needlessly humiliated the teacher in front of the rest of the class.[/quote]
Hold your horses, the OP did not say his boss confronted him at all. He said his boss listened to what he said and then asked the class for confirmation of what happened.
That seems pretty normal to me and it is not a lack of trust in the teacher or thinking the teacher is wrong. It is simply smart to get all the facts, just in case.
Now by doing this the boss showed that when this teacher does something, he has the backing of management and did so IN FRONT of the teachers class and taking away a bit of face from the disruptive student.
I really think the OP over reacted on this one but thats just my take on it.
Finally this was not some Korean vs Foreigner thing. Those people making this point are just stirring the pot. It was a teacher and employee thing and also a director and student thing.
At the very least, the boss has to think of the parents and his school as well so asking the students what happened is pretty reasonable. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Never mind the trust issue, it is very undermining for another member of staff to openly question what the teacher has said in front of the kids (by asking them if the story is true). That sort of thing would NEVER have happened in the schools I attended as a kid |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| Never mind the trust issue, it is very undermining for another member of staff to openly question what the teacher has said in front of the kids (by asking them if the story is true). That sort of thing would NEVER have happened in the schools I attended as a kid |
Yes, with no language barriers. Can you say you understand students 100% of the time when they appear to misbehave?
The options the school had included waiting, but then there would be no one else to talk to about it except the teacher and student. It would be one person's word against the other. The parents would chime in and side with their perfect Kim who would never misbehave.
By confirming it on the spot, the story doesn't change, excuses are out the window, and you have the support of the students.
I really don't see why a teacher would be opposed to this. You would rather fight this alone? I teach 45 students each class here in China, and if I had to punish each student by myself I would not last. I use the good students to police. It helps. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| Never mind the trust issue, it is very undermining for another member of staff to openly question what the teacher has said in front of the kids (by asking them if the story is true). That sort of thing would NEVER have happened in the schools I attended as a kid |
Again how the heck do you know that his boss undermined him??
From his own admission the OP says he does not understand Korean. The boss could have asked the others kids what this trouble maker was doing and tell them to listen to the teacher.
Where are you getting this about the boss questioning what the teacher said? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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The Op said the boss brought the student back to the class after 1 minute.
I can only speculate on why that would be, but my first thoughts are that the boss is too lazy to deal with the student. He just wanted to toss the student back in the class and let the teacher deal with the consequences.
What the boss did was tantamount to accusing the FT of lying ... to the whole class.
If you think this would not be "humiliating" to the teacher, I have to question your reasoning.
Luckily for the FT, the rest of the class supported him.
If the boss doesn't trust the teacher's judgment 3/4's of the way through the contract, there's really no hope.
As I said before, there are ways to go about these things, ways that are less
"undermining".
The boss has Zero managerial skills but that's typical for hagwon bosses.
What happened shows me that the school has no system/ plan in place for dealing with disruptive students. He just expects the teacher to deal with it.
Last edited by some waygug-in on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ChrisLamp
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
This is why I could not foresee making a career in teaching, in what other profession could the word of a ten year old delinquent get you into trouble.
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This. |
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