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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
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| To be horribly honest, being a PS teacher just isn't that great at all. If you're at a GOOD hagwon, yeah, you're probably making much more of an impact than being a public school "teacher" with 19 classes full of students. |
This is only the case if you are concerned with 'making an impact.'
To be horribly honest, most people teaching in Korea aren't here because of the supposed charms of the culture or the joys of teaching. They are here for the money.
IF you are one of those people, then PS is perfectly fine. You come in, you play nicely with your co-teachers, you are a show-pony when the time comes, you help the students who want to be and can be helped, you go through the highly-structured motions for the rest of them, you go home.
They're happy, you're happy. What's to stress about? Nothing, as long as you set aside this foolishness about 'impact.' After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again.
This forum seems to assume that everyone else is doing foreign teaching because they like it and are COMMITTED. Many people couldn't care less about this work as a profession or a calling. 10-15 years ahead? In 10 years I will NOT be teaching in Korea. |
Agreed, though I would like to turn that about a bit and ask "but what about the people who ARE committed and DO want to make an impact?
In my own case I see a great many of the issues presented in these threads as common issues I have run into during my career in the States. Add to that having to explain to Janet why she can't bring her kids to class, or why John can't be answering his cell-phone in class. And I am talking about students who are college level. And there is always the routine sit-down with the department head about why a student didn't get the grade they thought they deserved or how I can attract more students to my classes. I mention this because its not that I don't appreciate these issues or have never experienced them.
But now I make a case for myself as a Teaching professional.
I got into Teaching because I believe that the Human individual has a fundamental right to be coached to the highest level of fullfillment their potential allows. And I have had over 20 years of hearing---in ever more strident voices--- why this view does not synch-up with behaviors of other teachers and administrators. The biggest excuses revolve around Money (IE "funding") Time, Regulations and Burn-out. With stumbling-blocks like that the greatest blessing I have is that I never lost my fervor for what I do.
Now, I don't have to go to Korea to teach. I have put my time in here in the States and been pretty accomplished at it. Like most professionals, however, I'm intrgued by the idea of trying my skills in another venue with another range of challenges. If I stay here in the States I will probably "rot at anchor" like one of those English warships of the 18th and 19th Century. I don't deserve that. But I also don't deserve to sit-by and watch my profession reduced to "Bus-man Holiday" status by some ex-pats or a dodge, or scam, by businesses. I AM committed to making a difference and its very much a part of who I am.
Real Teaching is a tough profession and the flames come from just about every direction. If you can't take the heat...stay out of the classroom. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Thing about teaching is once you realise that a week or a month ago you sucked and wonder why you were so bad, you're starting to do your job right. It's a continuous improving yourself kind of job. In EFL, anyway. Once you realise that, you are highest on the totem pole. A totem pole that has been chopped down and pounded into the ground upside down. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| Thing about teaching is once you realise that a week or a month ago you sucked and wonder why you were so bad, you're starting to do your job right. It's a continuous improving yourself kind of job. In EFL, anyway. Once you realise that, you are highest on the totem pole. A totem pole that has been chopped down and pounded into the ground upside down. |
Actually, I very much agree----whenever a person allows that to be done to them. Remember, I am making a case for teachers to be identified and accepted as trained professionals.
IMHO there is no room for "wannabees". If a school hires a wannabee because that person knows somebody on the inside, or because the school is in a rush to put a warm body in the room, then they get what they hired. No more and no less.
OTOH if a school hires a teaching professional then two things need to happen. One thing is that the school treat the professional with the respect any other professional (IE. doctor, lawyer) would be accorded. The other thing is that the teacher conduct themselves with the professionalism and respect-for-Self that justifies the school's faith in that teacher. In my estimation these aren't just "nice things to have"; they are basic requirements and I see an awful lot of posts just on this website because people are not honoring these requirements. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| PastorYoon wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
| After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again. |
This.
Did I do that right? Just type the word 'this' under something that I agree with? I'm so witty and clever. Right, UrbanMyth?  |
If you had just typed the word "this" and left it at that I might have been forced to agree.
But then you told us all how "witty and clever" you were. Now how does that old saying go again? You know the one where it says if you have to TELL people that you are all that...? |
Clearly I was mocking your posts - your sarcasm suggests you are "witty and clever". I like the 'this' thing, but can't use it until I rip you for it. I just can't give you credit without a backhanded comment, since you apologize for Korean BS a bit much for my taste. I actually think you're clever, though. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| Thing about teaching is once you realise that a week or a month ago you sucked and wonder why you were so bad, you're starting to do your job right. It's a continuous improving yourself kind of job. In EFL, anyway. Once you realise that, you are highest on the totem pole. A totem pole that has been chopped down and pounded into the ground upside down. |
Actually, I very much agree----whenever a person allows that to be done to them. Remember, I am making a case for teachers to be identified and accepted as trained professionals.
IMHO there is no room for "wannabees". If a school hires a wannabee because that person knows somebody on the inside, or because the school is in a rush to put a warm body in the room, then they get what they hired. No more and no less.
OTOH if a school hires a teaching professional then two things need to happen. One thing is that the school treat the professional with the respect any other professional (IE. doctor, lawyer) would be accorded. The other thing is that the teacher conduct themselves with the professionalism and respect-for-Self that justifies the school's faith in that teacher. In my estimation these aren't just "nice things to have"; they are basic requirements and I see an awful lot of posts just on this website because people are not honoring these requirements. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
While I more or less agree with the spirit of your post I feel that it overlooks the reality of teaching here in Korea. There are only (relatively speaking) a handful of people here who were qualified and trained teachers/professionals back home. Most people are here for a year or two to make some money, pay off student debts and see a little of the world. And that is the fundamental view of ESL from both the inside and the outside. Until that changes and until schools start asking for proper qualifications, there is not going to be much change in the quality or character of most of the applicants. While there are good teachers here, you are also going to get a large number of slackers or layabouts because of the lax requirements. "No experience/qualifications required" reads to them like "no accountability asked for" Which is like a red flag to a bull.
Or for that matter of the administration of the school. You are also going to get a number of money hungry people who see opening a hakwon and throwing a NET or two in there as a gold mine. (for public schools there is also likely to be a fair amount of corruption as in skimming off the top...given that the province/cities pay the school a lump sum).
Put the two together and you have a recipe for disaster. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Can't argue with the facts, I guess.
But then, are there any professional organizations or groups where people can Network. Oh, I know; Dave has a fine location here. What I was thinking was something more along the lines of, say KOTESOL. I've been poking around and haven't come up with anything like that. Most what I am coming across so far is more like "ESL Themed" ex-pat networking; something like that. Here in the States, teachers of various subjects usually form Networks to promote their profession. Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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as someone whos been here for 10 years and worked in a fe different situations, id like to offer this.
this person who makes the best money, whether by salary or networking, wins.
i couldnt give a f+++ is a local thinks Im high class or not.
i met this irish dude lately, kind of greasy looking, who looked down on me because I work at a Daegu hagwon (again) and he had a uni position in Seoul.
kind of funny. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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My #1 goal as a teacher is making sure I and none of the students under my watch do anything that will get me fired or sued or thrown in jail.
Anything after that is gravy, and I do try and get me some gravy. But I won't risk any nonsense to try and get the the gravy. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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this person who makes the best money, whether by salary or networking, wins.
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Wins what exactly? I thought we were talking about the level of respect from society. If Koreans respect teachers who work at universities more than Hagwans, for example, it's probably because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the people in those positions have worked harder or obtained more qualifications to get there. Shouldn't dilligence and studiousness be more highly regarded than greed? Highest of all IMO should probably be philanthropy so teachers who work with the most difficult members of society, like underpriveleged kids, should recieve the most respect. |
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litebear
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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this person who makes the best money, whether by salary or networking, wins.
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Wins what exactly? I thought we were talking about the level of respect from society. If Koreans respect teachers who work at universities more than Hagwans, for example, it's probably because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the people in those positions have worked harder or obtained more qualifications to get there. Shouldn't dilligence and studiousness be more highly regarded than greed? Highest of all IMO should probably be philanthropy so teachers who work with the most difficult members of society, like underpriveleged kids, should recieve the most respect. |
+1 from me, an often thankless task. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
this person who makes the best money, whether by salary or networking, wins.
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Wins what exactly? I thought we were talking about the level of respect from society. If Koreans respect teachers who work at universities more than Hagwans, for example, it's probably because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the people in those positions have worked harder or obtained more qualifications to get there. Shouldn't dilligence and studiousness be more highly regarded than greed? Highest of all IMO should probably be philanthropy so teachers who work with the most difficult members of society, like underpriveleged kids, should recieve the most respect. |
Mmmmm.....in the best of all possible worlds what you write makes perfect sense. It should be like that but its not. Here is the States being "slick" gets reinforced far more than being "honorable" to the point that its becoming institutionalized. Politicians who work to vote their conscience are often labeled "boy scouts", "loners" and "mavericks". In the Business world being "ruthless" and "cut-throat" have actually become much sought-after terms of respect. Among the evangelicals, those TV personalities with the biggest churches and the most money are idolized regardless of their drug problems or sexual escapades.
In my short time here, I'm afraid that I may have made a name for myself as being a bit out of step with how the Education Business is done.
I guess it sux 2b me, right? But I believe in what I do and take how I do it probably more serious than most. What I remember, though, is that historically in Neo-confucian Korea teaching was identified as a sacred trust. We forget that prior to the turn of the 19th Century only about 1 in 10 or 12 people in Korea could read and write. Look at the literacy rate, now. Thats Education in action and we can be proud of that. But, people have notoriously short memories about such things, and Education is just another angle on making a buck, now. If we are to be respected for what we do it needs to be something we carry in our heart and require of others. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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