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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| For example, I get asked every week, "Did you see a movie?" But I don't find it strange or unusual because the person who asks me knows I like movies and watch one or two every weekend. |
You shouldn't find it strange. They are your students, they in theory would be keeping tabs.
It isn't because they know you. You aren't that special 
Now, if you were a complete stranger, maybe they would ask "Have you" instead if "Did you". |
She isn�t my student. She�s a receptionist. (But it would be just as well if one of my students were asking me.)
Why would a complete stranger ask me if I saw (or if I�d seen) a movie? That�s an example in a vacuum. Has this really ever happened to anyone? |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Simple answer.
From a technical standpoint
"Have you got" is wrong in the perfect tense.
Perfect tenses are "have + participle." Got is not a participle. Gotten is.
From the simple tense standpoint, "Have you got" is wrong. "Have" and "got" meaning the same thing. Do you have - present tense, in your possession. Did you get - present tense, did you get something that is now in your possession.
If you'd like, I can pull the references for the perfect stuff from Practical English Usage.
NOW, from a common, every day standpoint -
Sure, people say "have you got" all the time, and it communicates the point. But remember, these kids have to pass ridiculous tests on grammar. I would teach the "proper, correct" grammar unless the student is an adult, and never has to take another test on grammar again.
Otherwise, I'd stick to the proper stuff. If they travel overseas, study more, they'll pick up the colloquial stuff in the future, and it's easy enough for them to understand. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Simple answer.
From a technical standpoint
"Have you got" is wrong in the perfect tense.
Perfect tenses are "have + participle." Got is not a participle. Gotten is.
From the simple tense standpoint, "Have you got" is wrong. "Have" and "got" meaning the same thing. Do you have - present tense, in your possession. Did you get - present tense, did you get something that is now in your possession.
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Did you bother to read the other posts? 'Have you got?' is perfectly OK in informal British English to mean Do you have?
'Gotten' does not exist in standard British English. 'Got' is used as the participle.
If your post started with 'from an American English technical standpoint' it might make more sense. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Simple answer.
From a technical standpoint
"Have you got" is wrong in the perfect tense.
Perfect tenses are "have + participle." Got is not a participle. Gotten is.
From the simple tense standpoint, "Have you got" is wrong. "Have" and "got" meaning the same thing. Do you have - present tense, in your possession. Did you get - present tense, did you get something that is now in your possession.
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Did you bother to read the other posts? 'Have you got?' is perfectly OK in informal British English to mean Do you have?
'Gotten' does not exist in standard British English. 'Got' is used as the participle.
If your post started with 'from an American English technical standpoint' it might make more sense. |
Yeah, I did read the other posts. Did you read mine the whole way through?
We should not be teaching students informal grammar if they are going to be tested. "Have you got" is wrong in any dialect from a grammar standpoint - British or American. The fact that everyone knows what it means and people use it all the time is irrelevant. You teach a Korean student that it's acceptable to use, and they are going to lose points on their test. Period.
From a purely technical standpoint, I stand by what I said. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I did read the other posts. |
Well I'm surprised, as 'different, some waygug-in, The Cosmic Hum, Privateer and isitts' all seem to think 'have got' is acceptable as a replacement for 'have'. Some of them point out, as I did, that's it's more common in British English. Micheal Swan's Practical English usage says
'in conversational and informal writing we often use the double form 'have got' (I've got a new boyfriend)
Which is what I said. So what evidence do you have that 'have got' (for possessions in the present form) is 'wrong' in spoken or informally written English? Do tell.
I notice you didn't question the fact that 'gotten' is not used in British English so I assume you accept my point on that.
Whether or not kids lose marks in tests is a different issue and one I'm not really concerned about. We've all seen examples of how poor Korean tests of English are on these boards and I know for a fact that international tests such as IELTS accept 'have got' and 'gotten' as well, since they recognise American and British spelling and grammar. If it helps your kids to tell them 'have got' and 'got' as a participle are 'wrong' go ahead but most people in the business would not agree |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Well, I for one think we should teach more than just what is on the test.
I think there is an appropriate way to explain "have got" and tell students that it is something they will hear a lot in spoken English.
You can also tell them that on grammar tests (in Korea) they probably will never see it.
My point being that "have got" and it's various shortened forms is so common in spoken English that if a teacher doesn't at least explain it, you are severely hindering your students abilities to be able to pick things up on their own from the spoken English that they are likely to encounter.
How that for a run-on sentence?
I wouldn't spend too much time on it, but I do think it's something they should understand.
We all tell them to watch English movies and listen to music etc. So you expect them to pretend things like "I gotta go" just don't exist?
You've got to be joking.
This is one thing that I found very frustrating when I tried to learn Korean,
the spoken language is very different than what they show you in the classroom, and until you find someone who is willing to explain what's going on, you are left in the dark. |
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