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Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject:

Like I said, come up and live in Seoul for a while, see the reality, and then comment. Otherwise you really are just a bumpkin who over-romanticizes things. But if being an ignorant bumpkin who entertainment magnates love to string along (along with the new weeaboo geek crowd) suits you, go ahead and knock yourself out.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:54 am Post subject:

Stout wrote:

Like I said, come up and live in Seoul for a while, see the reality, and then comment. Otherwise you really are just a bumpkin who over-romanticizes things. But if being an ignorant bumpkin who entertainment magnates love to string along (along with the new weeaboo geek crowd) suits you, go ahead and knock yourself out.

For someone who hates KPop you sure seem to have a lot of insight into it. I mean if I couldn't stand the stuff I would just listen to something else and not give a hoot about what goes on with it. But it seems like you've devoted serious time and research to this.

As for being exploited and people raking money of people chasing dreams, all I have to say is it sounds sorta like us and our college Dee-grees. I mean, we could have all that knowledge and interaction by going to the library and joining civic groups and hobby groups. But then again we wanted to get paid. Some of us took out some debt to chase that dream. Most, if not all of us threw buckets of money at the textbook factories. That's life.

Yeah, some kids spend time playing sports instead of preparing for the job market because they see a Gatorade commercial. That doesn't stop me from popping a brew every now and then watching a game.

I mean last thing I want to hear when I listen to a tune or watch a game is for someone to lecture me on how awful I am and how high and mighty they are.

Frankly, thinking you are a better person than someone based on what music you listen to is sheer idiocy. I mean who thinks like that?

Also, just because someone listens to KPop doesn't mean they obsessively follow it or that's all they listen to.

Yes, the industry has some sleaze to it. We get it. Every field has its dirt. I mean, as an NET, I am not about to start lecturing people on doing what it takes to get a decent paycheck.

Also I find it funny when NETs get all high and mighty about music towards Koreans considering the bulk of recent music is created or based/ripped off of the culture and traditions of the descendants of American slavery.

Tundra_Creature

Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:24 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'?

Actually he was pressured to quit because of some of the comments he made.

Jay park actually came back to Korea, but as a solo artist. He just came out with a new album in April. I don't blame him, really. I can't imagine having to start all over back in the States and then probably not even getting a real shot at the entertainment industry there.

The industry can certainly be a dirty business what with the plastic surgery and the crazy long hours. I'm surprised not more of them end up like those Disney Kids (Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, etc). That being said, a lot of them also probably enjoy their work very much and probably wouldn't get the chance otherwise to do it.

And yeah, the songs are hella catchy.

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject:

Tundra_Creature wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'?

Actually he was pressured to quit because of some of the comments he made.

They do turn out like that, but you only hear about it when they hang themselves. After their spot in the sun (if they get there), they are hung out to dry.

Diamonds are also quite fetching, and purchasing them can also reproduce misery. Big boss man rolls in the dollars, workers get a few scraps, and the consumer is the one who feeds the machine.

But oh well, so long as you can tap your toes, who gives a hay.

http://www.mb.com.ph/node/284272/korean-

http://www.celebvids.co.uk/tag/k-pop/

http://www.hellokpop.com/2011/05/27/singer-and-former-sg-wannabe-member-chae-dong-ha-commits-suicide/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13760064

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

[

Also I find it funny when NETs get all high and mighty about music towards Koreans considering the bulk of recent music is created or based/ripped off of the culture and traditions of the descendants of American slavery.

Most NET's aren't American.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject:

Stout wrote:

Tundra_Creature wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'?

Actually he was pressured to quit because of some of the comments he made.

So you're saying KPop is bad because some of its members have met an untimely demise.

Could you please inform me of a genre of music free of such unfortunate ends for its stars?

I mean, suicide and depression pretty much seems to come with the territory of being a performer/artist. Something to do with the psychology behind it.

Thank goodness I can listen to Janis Joplin, Hank Williams, Jimi Hendrix, Nirvana, Easy-E, and Tupac and not have to worry about my stars meeting an unfortunate end or having anything go wrong in their music industry.

Yeah, not every person who wants to be a star is going to make it. Some succeed, some fail. Along the way it costs money. Some people understand the risks associated with dropping out of school and trying to make it big.

Great reward requires great risk.

So please Stout, clue us in on how to pursue and succeed at your life dream. You are living it, right?

Tundra_Creature

Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:21 am Post subject:

Stout wrote:

Boss making more money than the workers? Sounds like my job, minus the fame and glamor and parties with hot men on party boats. Wink

Nah, but in all seriousness, I find it hard to get myself worked up over the music industry as compared to other issues, especially considering the amount of suicides, drug abuse, etc that happens in both the mainstream and independent sectors.

Considering I choose to support both sectors by listening to music from both (and buying from both), I don't feel too guilty about my choices. This is just me, but I find it very hard to get worked up over the music industry since it's not my 'passion'. I'd rather go and get worked up and upset about something else instead.

Sorry Dude (Dudette)?

Italy37612

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:44 am Post subject:

If you don't like it there is always 102.7 for your listening pleasure.

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:12 am Post subject:

[quote="Steelrails"]

Stout wrote:

Tundra_Creature wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'?

Actually he was pressured to quit because of some of the comments he made.

Quote:

So you're saying KPop is bad because some of its members have met an untimely demise.

Could you please inform me of a genre of music free of such unfortunate ends for its stars?

I mean, suicide and depression pretty much seems to come with the territory of being a performer/artist. Something to do with the psychology behind it.

Thank goodness I can listen to Janis Joplin, Hank Williams, Jimi Hendrix, Nirvana, Easy-E, and Tupac and not have to worry about my stars meeting an unfortunate end or having anything go wrong in their music industry.Yeah, not every person who wants to be a star is going to make it. Some succeed, some fail. Along the way it costs money. Some people understand the risks associated with dropping out of school and trying to make it big.

Great reward requires great risk.quote]

Even if a K-popster's songs manage to crack the top 10, they aren't really rewarded with success in the K-pop scheme of things (as is made clear in the BBC article) unless they do big business abroad in Japan. Even then, it is momentary, and unless you are able to sustain the hype at mach 10 like a Rain or Lee Hyori, you eventually end up back in the dumpster, like the SG Wannabe fellow.

None of the western musicians' deaths you mentioned have been confirmed as a suicide. Although Kurt Cobain's comes closest, even his case involved a chronic physical condition and a history of suicidal tendencies in his family which may have led him to the edge as opposed to mistreatment by his label as the main cause, although even then credible evidence exists which suggests he did not take his own life with a shotgun as has been widely reported. If you knew how US labels covet their cash cows, you'd know they do what they can to keep their charges pampered. Artists like Prince may balk at what they perceive to be lack of artistic freedom, but they have the option to go independant and still do okay.

K-pop's magnates run their racket like a slave plantation, pure and simple, and don't allow alternative music scenes to exist outside of Hongdae, which is hardly enough to offer any significant support. You may have noticed that an inordinate amount of K-pop is either a heavily produced ballad or dance number. Young minds are shaped by this staggeringly meagre diet, and people have noticed a corresponding bland uniformity in the culture and mindset here, with a limited number of options regarding choice of lifestyle/career/basic individual expression (these may play a role in suicides of people not involved in the music industry). Yet wouldn't it be better if all sorts of creative options were provided? Not necessarily emulating western models, simply allowing for new ideas to germinate and develop outside of the choking monopoly of the giants. If other labels had a shot at developing talent outside of the "training dorms", aspiring artists wouldn't be forced into slave contracts, and perhaps would have a shot at being recognized more for their talent rather than their manufactured image. Consumers can play a part in nudging things in different directions, and can do their part in helping create a healthier music environment.

http://www.angelfire.com/country/hanksr/death.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kurt_Cobain

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/j/Janis%20%20Joplin/janis_joplin.htm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article549854.ece

Privateer

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject:

I hate to say it but, with pop, it's a matter of finding the distribution channels. If the K-pop music industry gets enough economic clout, then it may just be able to muscle its way into the existing Western music marketing channels and then - shudder - we may find it saturating the airwaves. Would it be worse or better in English translation? I vote evil no matter what.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject:

Quote:

None of the western musicians' deaths you mentioned have been confirmed as a suicide.

Just ODs/Shootings.

So what, are you saying no famous American/British/Australian musician has ever committed suicide?

I mean isn't ODing tantamount to suicide?

Quote:

as opposed to mistreatment by his label as the main cause

Yeah, Tupac and Dre thought Suge Knight and Interscope were the best ever!!!

Quote:

and don't allow alternative music scenes to exist outside of Hongdae

Gee, those Korean Trot, Korean Jazz, K-Indie, and Korean classical voice concerts I've gone to must have been hallucinations.

Oh yeah, a lot of Korean people listen to trot and classical and jazz. I guess that blows your oversimplifications out of the water.

Quote:

You may have noticed that an inordinate amount of K-pop is either a heavily produced ballad or dance number

You mean to tell me that pop music is primarily ballads or dance numbers?

Really? I thought it was all polkas or orchestras or bluegrass strings like American pop music is....

Any other great insights there?

Quote:

Yet wouldn't it be better if all sorts of creative options were provided? Not necessarily emulating western models, simply allowing for new ideas to germinate and develop outside of the choking monopoly of the giants. If other labels had a shot at developing talent outside of the "training dorms", aspiring artists wouldn't be forced into slave contracts, and perhaps would have a shot at being recognized more for their talent rather than their manufactured image. Consumers can play a part in nudging things in different directions, and can do their part in helping create a healthier music environment.

Yeah, it's called Fluxus music and Pastel Music. Both of which have some fairly notable acts and plenty of fans.

But thank goodness in America you'll never see things like record labels bribing radio stations to play certain acts' music....

Again, you're central point seems to be that listening to certain kinds of music makes you a better human being. I'm interested in this theory. I want to be a better human being. Please name me some bands that I can listen to, so that by virtue of listening to them, I become a better person.

I had no idea music and being a decent human being were so linked...thanks Stout!

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

None of the western musicians' deaths you mentioned have been confirmed as a suicide.

Just ODs/Shootings.

So what, are you saying no famous American/British/Australian musician has ever committed suicide?

I mean isn't ODing tantamount to suicide?

Quote:

as opposed to mistreatment by his label as the main cause

Yeah, Tupac and Dre thought Suge Knight and Interscope were the best ever!!!

Quote:

and don't allow alternative music scenes to exist outside of Hongdae

Quote:

You may have noticed that an inordinate amount of K-pop is either a heavily produced ballad or dance number

Quote:

Well, you could start by not being such an out-and-out sarcastic ass. As for Pastel and Fluxus (both of which are heavily based on Japanese models; the term Fluxus itself comes from the Japanese performance art group where Paik Nam June emerged from), again if you actually lived in Seoul rather than ranting from your country enclave, you'd realize how marginalized they are. I'm sure all the Korean people you know out there are familiar with them, as most of the Koreans in Seoul are not. For their audience they are obviously extremely important for the alternative window they provide, although in tone and scope it's actually quite meagre when compared with say Japan or Hong Kong (in the case of some of Pastel/Fluxus offerings just more K-popish fluff). If you went to Japan and hung out in Shimokitazawa you'd immediately see where they were getting all their ideas from. Even Japanese idol singers are getting a whiff of reality and waking up- http://www.japantoday.com/category/entertainment/view/singer-maki-goto-to-take-break-from-show-business
Which, really, seems to be the central point concerning you- you obviously haven't lived very much in other countries which offer a whole lot of diversity, so you don't really know how poor the alternatives are here in Korea. While you were in the states, you opted for Korean boy band HOT, so your notions of music were shaped within that view of things. I expect you'll just dance around some more sarcastic posturings in your future posts, so you'll just have to do it solo from now on I'm afraid.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Well, you could start by not being such an out-and-out sarcastic ass.

And you could stop being so judgmental. Which is why I am so sarcastic.

Again, since you seem to believe that the music listens to you affects your quality of human being, could you please list some examples?

Quote:

As for Pastel and Fluxus (both of which are heavily based on Japanese models...)

Good for them. No reason not to follow a good model.

Quote:

again if you actually lived in Seoul rather than ranting from your country enclave, you'd realize how marginalized they are

Not trying to put them as anything more than an indie set. Not mainstream.

Of course you're suggestion that everyone in Seoul listens to KPop and nothing but is ludicrous as well.

What do you think I've never been to Seoul? Do you think I don't visit there constantly? Do you think people here in the boondocks don't listen to KPop? There's this thing out there called the internet, and these things called televisions. What, you think people here don't watch Inki Gayo?

Quote:

Which, really, seems to be the central point concerning you- you obviously haven't lived very much in other countries which offer a whole lot of diversity, so you don't really know how poor the alternatives are here in Korea.

Yes, Hong Kong and Japan have great offerings as well.

I am living in Korea, I am going to listen to the Korean offerings.

Sorry that offends you and bothers you so much.

Which goes to my central point- Why does it bother you so much what music people listen to?

Quote:

While you were in the states, you opted for Korean boy band HOT, so your notions of music were shaped within that view of things.

Right, because that's the only music I listen to.

Because I listen to KPop, that must be the ONLY music I listen to.

You sure are an intellectual heavyweight there.

Face it you've been exposed as one of those people who believes they are better than others based on what music they listen to. What an utterly sad life view.

In the meantime I'll rest well knowing that when I walk into a Family Mart the music they have on doesn't cause me pain. Man that would suck to have to be constantly angry everywhere you go because of the music. You shouldn't let that get to you so much. It's not healthy.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:48 am Post subject:

"Copy it and sell/market it back to them." We've seen this formula before. But will it work with music too?

Chalmers

Joined: 20 Oct 2008

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject:

I heard CNN will feature KPop in it's modern-day slavery reports with Demi Moore.

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