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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Aren't there photographs of bruises on the woman's vagina?
I agree with stout. It's looking more and more like the rich old boy network has kicked into high gear to protect one of its own. |
Are you telling me that you believe that beyond a reasonable doubt? Or are you going off the preponderence of the evidence standard . . . because we both know that is NOT the appropriate standard for ultimate conviction in criminal trials.
Please read this letter from the prosecutors to the defense attorney (pursuant to requirements that prosecutors share with the defense any exculpatory evidence they discover) before you respond. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
And everyone has suddenly forgotten about DSK's credibility in his past dealings with women.
Well there you go, money talks, and elite old men with connections walk out scot free. Did you really think they were going to convict one of their own? He's made his buddies millions by enforcing the strings which the IMF attaches to their conditions, they're not gonna desert him because he assaulted an African immigrant single mother! And if I do have to eat these words later, I will do quite gladly. |
They got her on the phone talking to a guy who's been accused of marijuana trafficking about how she knew what she was doing and was going to bleed DSK dry. Even assuming her version of events is accurate, she did this to herself. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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delete
(See below) |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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It's a crappy rainy season Sunday morning here in Seongnam and I'm stuck waiting for an hour to go out in the rain for lunch, which I don't particularly want to do...So I'll answer as if I were a juror being asked to vote at this point (knowing we don't have all the evidence)...
The prosecutors say the woman lied on a government document. So what, I ask. If everyone who lied on a government document were held accountable, half the US population would be in prison for tax evasion. This in itself is not a serious hit to the woman's character.
The second claim that she was raped, but not gang raped, is more serious. I need more information on that part of her story. Given the number of women raped, it is plausible.
So far, we've got a man with a shabby reputation for treating women badly up against a woman desperate to escape a poor country and was advised by someone to lie. Lying is a no-no and you shouldn't do it, but it is not a crime in the same way murder and rape are crimes.
The employee of a hoity-toity $3,000 a day hotel who naturally doesn't want to lose her job hesitates about how to handle a bad situation, and probably has to deal with a supervisor who routinely bows and scrapes before the rich customers, hides out and finishes her assigned job of cleaning the room after she is sure the man is gone...OK. Not hard to believe.
Let's see...a single mother trying to raise two kids on a maid's salary in NYC lies on her tax return. Does it disqualify her from accusing a man of rape? See above.
�Finally, during the course of this investigation, the complainant was untruthful with assistant district attorneys about a variety of additional topics concerning her history, background, present circumstances and personal relationships.� If the prosecution doesn't think they are important enough to detail, I can't evaluate their importance.
I'd like more information on the claim of rape in Guinea.
I should mention that I am not a particular fan of the tactic of attacking a woman's character when she accuses someone of rape. It doesn't look like the woman is a saint, but then neither is DSK.
Here is a wealthy man who has a record of shabby dealings with women, who has connections to the most powerful politicians and financiers in the world, and who was being seriously considered for the presidency of his country... I'm not na�ve. I know how the world works sometimes. Equality before the law is an ideal, not necessarily a reality. Let's say I'm suspicious in this case.
There seem to be photographs of bruises on the woman's body as well as DNA evidence. I'd like to hear DSK's explanation of the bruises (beyond 'it was consensual sex').
northway's post saying:
�They got her on the phone talking to a guy who's been accused of marijuana trafficking about how she knew what she was doing and was going to bleed DSK dry� is more interesting to me than the woman's lying. Too bad there isn't a link to that claim. However, the comment that it involves 'a guy who's been accused of marijuana trafficking' is a red herring and can be discounted.
So no, I'm not ready to hang the man up by his family jewels yet, but I'm not ready to give him a free pass on a possible rape either. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I didn't think I'd need to provide a link, as I've read it in a few places. Here you go:
| Quote: |
Investigators with the Manhattan district attorney�s office learned the call had been recorded and had it translated from a �unique dialect of Fulani,� a language from the woman�s native country, Guinea, according to a well-placed law enforcement official.
When the conversation was translated � a job completed only this Wednesday � investigators were alarmed: �She says words to the effect of, �Don�t worry, this guy has a lot of money. I know what I�m doing,� � the official said. |
| Quote: |
| The boyfriend in the Arizona detention center was another issue. He had been arrested while bartering counterfeit designer clothing from Manhattan�s Chinatown for marijuana in the Southwest, the well-placed law enforcement official said. Her lawyer said she did not know the man was �a drug dealer.� |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/nyregion/one-revelation-after-another-undercut-strauss-kahn-accusers-credibility.html?src=me&ref=nyregion
Also, as much as I hate the New York Post and generally doubt its credibility, I think this bears mentioning (with the requisite grain of salt):
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The Sofitel housekeeper who claims the former IMF boss sexually assaulted her in his room was doing double duty as a prostitute, collecting cash on the side from male guests, The Post has learned.
"There is information . . . of her getting extraordinary tips, if you know what I mean. And it's not for bringing extra f--king towels," a source close to the defense investigation said yesterday. |
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/maid_cleaning_up_as_hooker_0mMd759PLuYGYYJyA0RNbI |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
It's a crappy rainy season Sunday morning here in Seongnam and I'm stuck waiting for an hour to go out in the rain for lunch, which I don't particularly want to do...So I'll answer as if I were a juror being asked to vote at this point (knowing we don't have all the evidence)...
The prosecutors say the woman lied on a government document. So what, I ask. If everyone who lied on a government document were held accountable, half the US population would be in prison for tax evasion. This in itself is not a serious hit to the woman's character.
The second claim that she was raped, but not gang raped, is more serious. I need more information on that part of her story. Given the number of women raped, it is plausible.
So far, we've got a man with a shabby reputation for treating women badly up against a woman desperate to escape a poor country and was advised by someone to lie. Lying is a no-no and you shouldn't do it, but it is not a crime in the same way murder and rape are crimes.
The employee of a hoity-toity $3,000 a day hotel who naturally doesn't want to lose her job hesitates about how to handle a bad situation, and probably has to deal with a supervisor who routinely bows and scrapes before the rich customers, hides out and finishes her assigned job of cleaning the room after she is sure the man is gone...OK. Not hard to believe.
Let's see...a single mother trying to raise two kids on a maid's salary in NYC lies on her tax return. Does it disqualify her from accusing a man of rape? See above.
�Finally, during the course of this investigation, the complainant was untruthful with assistant district attorneys about a variety of additional topics concerning her history, background, present circumstances and personal relationships.� If the prosecution doesn't think they are important enough to detail, I can't evaluate their importance.
I'd like more information on the claim of rape in Guinea.
I should mention that I am not a particular fan of the tactic of attacking a woman's character when she accuses someone of rape. It doesn't look like the woman is a saint, but then neither is DSK.
Here is a wealthy man who has a record of shabby dealings with women, who has connections to the most powerful politicians and financiers in the world, and who was being seriously considered for the presidency of his country... I'm not na�ve. I know how the world works sometimes. Equality before the law is an ideal, not necessarily a reality. Let's say I'm suspicious in this case.
There seem to be photographs of bruises on the woman's body as well as DNA evidence. I'd like to hear DSK's explanation of the bruises (beyond 'it was consensual sex').
northway's post saying:
�They got her on the phone talking to a guy who's been accused of marijuana trafficking about how she knew what she was doing and was going to bleed DSK dry� is more interesting to me than the woman's lying. Too bad there isn't a link to that claim. However, the comment that it involves 'a guy who's been accused of marijuana trafficking' is a red herring and can be discounted.
So no, I'm not ready to hang the man up by his family jewels yet, but I'm not ready to give him a free pass on a possible rape either. |
Much of this analysis is based off of propensity evidence and inferences, i.e. character evidence. Propensity evidence is inadmissible as to the Defendant, unless the Defendant opens the door to it. Once the Defendant has opened the door, the Defendant may not testify as to specific acts of conduct and is limited to opinion evidence (as are any other character witnesses), although the Prosecution may, on cross-examination (of either the Defendant or his character witnesses), ask whether the opinion witness knows of or has heard of specific acts of conduct. Nevertheless, even if the opinion witness denies having heard of the specific acts, it may not be proven by extrinsic evidence. Note that opinion testimony of reputation must be relevant to the trait involved (peaceableness for a crime of violence; or honesty for a crime of deceit).
But, the Defendant may introduce reputation/opinion evidence as to the relevant trait of the victim in a criminal case. This rule DOES NOT extend to the bad character of rape victims. I repeat, a Defendant may NOT attack a rape victim's bad character, as there is a specific exception in both the Federal Rules of Evidence and almost every State code for rape and character attacks.
There is an important distinction between character evidence and impeachment. Attacks on the truthfulness of a witness - impeachment - are often allowed. The traditional attacks are: a showing of bias/interest in the litigation, an attack by showing convictions of a prior crime, prior bad acts, a poor reputation for veracity, a showing of sensory deficiencies, and the use of prior inconsistant statements. Prior criminal convictions can be of any felony, but prior bad acts are limited to those showing the witness to be unworthy of belief. Note that the use of prior inconsistant statements becomes admissible nonhearsay (an exception to the hearsay rules) if made under oath at a prior trial, hearing, or other proceeding, or in a deposition. But whether or not the victim's statement was part of a trial/proceeding is an interesting question in itself, because I doubt an asylum application counts as a proceeding.
The reason I posted that letter is because the prosecution MUST disclose relevant evidence exculpating the defendant to the defense. Now, that does not necessarily mean all the evidence provided will be admissible. But because much of it relates to the victim's overall lack of veracity, some of it will probably be admitted.
Northway presents something that is irrelevant, at least as to proving propensity (but it may be relevant solely for the purpose of motive). Namely, that the victim was a prostitute, and was actively prostituting herself to guests. Prostitutes can still be raped! |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Northway presents something that is irrelevant, at least as to proving propensity (but it may be relevant solely for the purpose of motive). Namely, that the victim was a prostitute, and was actively prostituting herself to guests. Prostitutes can still be raped! |
Surely, but if it's true (which I'm skeptical of, considering the source), I think it's extremely relevant when viewed in combination with the phone call in which she said she knew what she was doing. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I hope people are not forgetting that the accused was a front-runner to defeat the current incumbent for the French presidency. Whatever the nature of the former IMF pres or the character of hotel maid/victim, I have this nagging sense that top players in the party of the current French president are fanning the flames for all they are worth. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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While it is certainly true that prostitutes can be, and often are raped, there can be no question that if she has a prodigious history of servicing hotel customers that this egregiously taints her credibility. Especially under the surrounding circumstances.
| northway wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Northway presents something that is irrelevant, at least as to proving propensity (but it may be relevant solely for the purpose of motive). Namely, that the victim was a prostitute, and was actively prostituting herself to guests. Prostitutes can still be raped! |
Surely, but if it's true (which I'm skeptical of, considering the source), I think it's extremely relevant when viewed in combination with the phone call in which she said she knew what she was doing. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Have a good flight home, DSK, you'll have a warm welcome awaiting you, as in another case to wriggle your fat ass out of. Only this time she's white, and of higher status. Certainly, your boys will work something out here as well, right? Just throw a lot of money at her, that usually does the trick. Then go back to having your way like a pig, so long as you make sure to do it to immigrants and no-name common folk, shouldn't be a big deal, no way you can lose from now 
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/04/137605069/strauss-kahn-to-face-new-sex-charge-in-paris
The political world was hit by a new shock when the lawyer for writer Tristane Banon announced she planned to file the complaint in Paris within a day.
Banon came forward after Strauss-Kahn's May 14 arrest in New York to accuse him of wrenching open her bra and trying to unbutton her jeans in 2002. Lawyer David Koubbi said Banon had been dissuaded at the time from filing charges by her mother, a regional councilor in Strauss-Kahn's Socialist party.
Sarkozy has been assailed from the left for what some call his bling-bling image and tax policies that critics say favor the rich, in a country proud of its social welfare system and revolutionary past.
After his arrest, he lived under house arrest in a $50,000 (euro34,500)-a-month town house in Manhattan's trendy TriBeCa neighborhood.
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Strauss-Kahn-International-Financier-and-French-Politician----124852889.html |
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Friend Lee Ghost
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
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The real reason DSK was set up is that he had just discovered that US gold supposedly at Fort Knox is all gone! This dovetails nicely with what Ron Paul has suspected for a long time and is the reason Paul has been pushing for an audit of Fort Knox for years now.
Russia Says IMF Chief Jailed For Discovering All US Gold Is Gone
Posted by EU Times on May 31st, 2011
A new report prepared for Prime Minister Putin by the Federal Security Service (FSB) says that former International Monetary Fund (IMF) Chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn was charged and jailed in the US for sex crimes on May 14th after his discovery that all of the gold held in the United States Bullion Depository located at Fort Knox was �missing and/or unaccounted� for.
According to this FSB secret report, Strauss-Kahn had become �increasingly concerned� earlier this month after the United States began �stalling� its pledged delivery to the IMF of 191.3 tons of gold agreed to under the Second Amendment of the Articles of Agreement signed by the Executive Board in April 1978 that were to be sold to fund what are called Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) as an alternative to what are called reserve currencies.
This FSB report further states that upon Strauss-Kahn raising his concerns with American government officials close to President Obama he was �contacted� by �rogue elements� within the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who provided him �firm evidence� that all of the gold reported to be held by the US �was gone�.
Upon Strauss-Kahn receiving the CIA evidence, this report continues, he made immediate arrangements to leave the US for Paris, but when contacted by agents working for France�s General Directorate for External Security (DGSE) that American authorities were seeking his capture he fled to New York City�s JFK airport following these agents directive not to take his cell-phone because US police could track his exact location... |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, don't know how much daffier this DSK thing can get. Maybe if he raped Arnold. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Ooh, that would be some evil spawn  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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