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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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 Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: need help with grammar question please? |
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I know very little of the rules of grammar but can normally rely on finely tuned antennae as to what "sounds" right or not.
even when it's every day spoken (but "incorrect" English)
here is the conundrum
she would rather have been playing
vs
She would have rather been playing
There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that the first answer is by far the best and the more formal one. The 2nd one sounds strange and "tortured" to me, I'd never say it that way, much less ever write it on a paper or state in in a speech, etc.
sounds to me like carelessness on part of casual English with some, but I'm not 100% certain I can completely label it as "incorrect". (even formally)
what sayeth you?
Yet..
I WOULD much more readily accept .. she would have rather played..
(with past tense, rather than past progressive)
thank you in advance. |
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bioberd
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| You are correct in logic. The first one is more correct then the second sentence. Unfortunately, people do use the second sentence as if it is correct but the correct form is in past tense. |
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Kinbensha
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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As a linguist, and not a grammarian, I'd advise you to do away with your idea of "correct" and "incorrect" English. If native speakers say it, it's correct, period.
In terms of teaching "Standard" English, however, I would say that no one would hear a difference between those two sentences. They're both said often enough that I had to read them twice to even see where the difference was.
While writing a formal, academic essay, the formal register would be best. So, you're right. "She would rather have been playing," is the more formal, "Standard" choice. |
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j20kim
Joined: 08 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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OP, someone asked me the same exact question.
While I think that "I would have rather been playing" should be acceptable, I can't explain why it is correct.
Because we're talking about grading here, does anyone know if "would have rather" is actually grammatically correct? Yes, it is not preferred over "would rather have," but is it grammatically sound? Can the past progressive ("have" and "been") be split?
Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by j20kim on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kinbensha wrote: |
As a linguist, and not a grammarian, I'd advise you to do away with your idea of "correct" and "incorrect" English. If native speakers say it, it's correct, period.
In terms of teaching "Standard" English, however, I would say that no one would hear a difference between those two sentences. They're both said often enough that I had to read them twice to even see where the difference was.
While writing a formal, academic essay, the formal register would be best. So, you're right. "She would rather have been playing," is the more formal, "Standard" choice. |
with all due respect, that's nonsense. (besides/on top of things, we're talking about a test question here)
native speakers often use incorrect form in their everyday English through a combination of laziness and lack of education.
my favorite e.g. and pet peeve. the use of adjectives instead of the proper adverb
we played good.
things could have gone different.
some people will say "things could have went different" which now makes it wrong on 2 levels, etc.
etc etc
I've never heard it said the 2nd way, and I don't pay particular attention to casual usage, but when every fiber of my being tells me don't write it that way, or use it in any formal speech/academic address, then I "know" it's basically wrong.
Last edited by rainism on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| j20kim wrote: |
OP, someone asked me the same exact question.
While I think that "I would have rather been playing" should be acceptable, I can't explain why it is correct.
Because we're talking about grading here, does anyone know if "would have rather" is actually grammatically correct? Yes, it is not preferred over "would rather have," but is it grammatically sound?
Any help would be appreciated. |
my google work on it suggests either wrong or at the least "strained".
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1040363
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=912244 |
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j20kim
Joined: 08 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
| j20kim wrote: |
OP, someone asked me the same exact question.
While I think that "I would have rather been playing" should be acceptable, I can't explain why it is correct.
Because we're talking about grading here, does anyone know if "would have rather" is actually grammatically correct? Yes, it is not preferred over "would rather have," but is it grammatically sound?
Any help would be appreciated. |
my google work on it suggests either wrong or at the least "strained".
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1040363
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=912244 |
i saw those posts as well, but i'm still not convinced.
does anyone know if "have" and "been" can be split? |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| j20kim wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
| j20kim wrote: |
OP, someone asked me the same exact question.
While I think that "I would have rather been playing" should be acceptable, I can't explain why it is correct.
Because we're talking about grading here, does anyone know if "would have rather" is actually grammatically correct? Yes, it is not preferred over "would rather have," but is it grammatically sound?
Any help would be appreciated. |
my google work on it suggests either wrong or at the least "strained".
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1040363
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=912244 |
i saw those posts as well, but i'm still not convinced.
does anyone know if the past progressive can be split? |
I'm awaiting an answer from someone who endured the mind crushing education of "formal grammar" rules, but unless I am convinced otherwise my position remains that my initial approach/feeling is the correct one and I'd only split the verb in the past tense, rather than progressive.
it's gut feelings like these that have enabled me to never spend any time on grammar but always ace very high scores on verbal parts of standardized tests/ boards, etc. |
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different
Joined: 22 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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To me, both sentences are fine, and in fact the second one seems smoother. The first one doesn't seem more formal or anything.
What you found on Google isn't convincing because it's just another forum and two of the three examples they talk about are kind of weird anyway. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| different wrote: |
To me, both sentences are fine, and in fact the second one seems smoother. The first one doesn't seem more formal or anything.
What you found on Google isn't convincing because it's just another forum and two of the three examples they talk about are kind of weird anyway. |
define "fine".
mind you this is an exam question we are | | |
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