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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| This has happened enough that I think Korea ought to wake up to the fact that they could treat their soldiers a bit better. This guy was a marine, so perhaps he had better conditions, but I fail to see the utility of allowing only about two weeks of leave over the course of a two year enlistment. The Taiwanese military is probably the closest parallel to Korea's, and they're allowed to go home nearly every weekend, as well as being provided quite a lot of leave in the middle. While that's probably a bit much for Korea, they could let the guys go home a bit more. Of course you're going to have guys go nuts when they're stuck on the same small base, with very little time off, for as long as they are. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Of course that would be the reasonable thing to do...as has been noted in other threads, Koreans aren't exactly renowned for their treatment/consideration of others, and there are various reasons for that, a major one being that the elite couldn't give a squat for your average Korean citizen. But they will be very happy to sell them an I-Phon...a Galaxy smart phone. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| Of course that would be the reasonable thing to do...as has been noted in other threads, Koreans aren't exactly renowned for their treatment/consideration of others, and there are various reasons for that, a major one being that the elite couldn't give a squat for your average Korean citizen. But they will be very happy to sell them an I-Phon...a Galaxy smart phone. |
Fair point, and speaking from the people I know best, most of the Korean kids with whom I went to high school were able to get cushy jobs as translators or social workers while living in their folks' plush Gangnam digs. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| In one of the links it mentioned that there were frequent reports of bullying and violence against conscripts in the Korean military. I realize it may not be related to the incident in the OP but I find this really troubling. This is mainly because I'm against conscription because for one thing, it opens the door to so many potential cases of abuse. Unfortunately, this barely hits the human rights radar. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Probably a product of a single child home, or home with one son. In the past conscripts probably had a few other brothers and lived in pretty meager conditions. So going to the army, with 3 square meals a day, must have been a godsend. Now they come in from a pretty pampered lifestyle into a spartan one and is probably a shock for many. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| In one of the links it mentioned that there were frequent reports of bullying and violence against conscripts in the Korean military. |
This is a problem the military is aggressively addressing. A couple of weeks ago I got a call from a former student (a lieutenant). He had spent his day as part of a judicial panel dealing with 3 officers who had used 'bad language' with some privates. The officers went to jail. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| In one of the links it mentioned that there were frequent reports of bullying and violence against conscripts in the Korean military. |
This is a problem the military is aggressively addressing. A couple of weeks ago I got a call from a former student (a lieutenant). He had spent his day as part of a judicial panel dealing with 3 officers who had used 'bad language' with some privates. The officers went to jail. |
Yeah, one of my buddies got his NCO sent to jail for forcing the kids under him to buy him shoes and the like. He would actually pick them out from catalogues and tell those under his command to get the shoes when they went home on leave. If they failed to follow through he would make their lives a living hell. |
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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| This is mainly because I'm against conscription because for one thing, it opens the door to so many potential cases of abuse. Unfortunately, this barely hits the human rights radar. |
Besides the obvious fact why Korea has conscription, I actually think it is a good idea.
I wish the UK would do it! It would help give some kids discipline and self respect and would help to reduce some of the huge social problems the UK has as well!
I was having lunch with my gf younger brother last week, he�s lost 20kg since he joined the army and is now fit and healthy � although he HATES it, he did begrudgingly admit that the army has been very good for him��. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| swinewho wrote: |
| Besides the obvious fact why Korea has conscription, I actually think it is a good idea. |
As long as their northern neighbor is functioning, conscription will stay. Also, yes the K-military needs to reform in order to keep modern day Korean males from shooting each other up. I wonder how stringent their psych tests are? Do they even have one? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Had an interesting conversation with my ct and a really old teacher (didn't even know he could speak fluent english). The really old guy was in the army for about 10 years before going into teaching. Served sometime in the 60's/70's and was also sent to Vietnam. He said that guys going nuts and shooting other soldiers happened back then too at about the same frequency. He'd hear rumors of it every few years. Difference is that reporters would not dare report it, or face disappearing for a few days. He basically said it's as close to a fragging a Korean conscript can give. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| It's good to hear the problem is being addressed. I'm pretty skeptical about the idea of conscription giving discipline and dealing with social problems though. Why should you people be penalized for the actions of a few? And why is it just implemented on males. I'm talking about in general, such as in the UK, not the Korean system here. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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It's good to hear the problem is being addressed. I'm pretty skeptical about the idea of conscription giving discipline and dealing with social problems though. Why should you people be penalized for the actions of a few? And why is it just implemented on males. I'm talking about in general, such as in the UK, not the Korean system here. People in favor of it remind me of old people sitting on the bench moaning about back in their day, whatever.
Another reason, I've lived in countries that had conscription and I didn't notice much improved discipline or lack of social problems compared to my own country, if anything they aggravated them. |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
It's good to hear the problem is being addressed. I'm pretty skeptical about the idea of conscription giving discipline and dealing with social problems though. Why should you people be penalized for the actions of a few? And why is it just implemented on males. I'm talking about in general, such as in the UK, not the Korean system here. People in favor of it remind me of old people sitting on the bench moaning about back in their day, whatever.
Another reason, I've lived in countries that had conscription and I didn't notice much improved discipline or lack of social problems compared to my own country, if anything they aggravated them. |
Are you kidding me? They seemed pretty disciplined to me. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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It seems they will blame others before blaming him (or themselves)
'Shooter may have suffered abuse'
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/116_90310.html
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| The Marine Corps corporal, who shot four of his colleagues to death Monday, suggested that he went on a shooting spree in retaliation for physical and bullying at his military unit. |
Poor, poor boy. Because the others teased him, its acceptable for him to take their life. We should all understand and feel sorry for the shooter. |
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