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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: Another Darwin Award Winner |
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Police say a motorcyclist participating in a protest ride against helmet laws in upstate New York died after he flipped over the bike's handlebars and hit his head on the pavement.
The accident happened Saturday afternoon in the town of Onondaga, in central New York near Syracuse.
State troopers tell The Post-Standard of Syracuse that 55-year-old Philip A. Contos of Parish, N.Y., was driving a 1983 Harley Davidson with a group of bikers who were protesting helmet laws by not wearing helmets.
Troopers say Contos hit his brakes and the motorcycle fishtailed. The bike spun out of control, and Contos toppled over the handlebars. He was pronounced dead at a hospital.
Troopers say Contos would have likely survived if he had been wearing a helmet. |
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carpetdope
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Is it wrong to be amused by that?
I'm sure there's a German word for it. |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| carpetdope wrote: |
Is it wrong to be amused by that?
I'm sure there's a German word for it. |
Schadenfreude, I believe. I had to explain that word to my wife when the Foot and Mouth disease hit.  |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| That's what we're talking about Alanis!! |
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carpetdope
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| tatertot wrote: |
| carpetdope wrote: |
Is it wrong to be amused by that?
I'm sure there's a German word for it. |
Schadenfreude, I believe. I had to explain that word to my wife when the Foot and Mouth disease hit. |
It's not the misfortune I'm deriving pleasure from per se but the irony.  |
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CasperTheFriendlyGhost
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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If someone, anyone had to die on a motorcycle, might as well be a guy protesting to ride without safety equipment. Walk the walk, die doing what you love, all that.
Last edited by CasperTheFriendlyGhost on Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: |
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It was his right to ride without a helmet. The government has no business trying to keep adults safe from themselves.
It seems he has died as a result of living the riskier life he freely chose to live. So be it.
That's what liberty is all about. |
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Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Location: Not Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
It was his right to ride without a helmet. The government has no business trying to keep adults safe from themselves.
It seems he has died as a result of living the riskier life he freely chose to live. So be it.
That's what liberty is all about. |
Not sure how the dead can enjoy that definition of liberty. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as peeps aren't using public streets or public medical facilities when they get brained, they should be allowed to ride with no helmet. Pro-choice across the board. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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problem's with the ones that don't die.
they become a burden on the health care system and we pay for it.
Kinda like the banks wanting freedom but then getting bailed out when the proverbial hit the fan. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
problem's with the ones that don't die.
they become a burden on the health care system and we pay for it.
Kinda like the banks wanting freedom but then getting bailed out when the proverbial hit the fan. |
One more reason we shouldn't pay for these things.
Most health care costs are a result of personal life choices. "WE," by which you mean forcing taxpayers to make involuntary expenditures, we should not pay. Everyone should pay their own way and reduce their health care costs by living wisely, if they choose, or live a risky life and pay or suffer the consequences.
Likewise the banks. There is no need to bail out banks in a free market. The recent collapse was due to another failure of socialism - this time, the government created and controlled fiat money/Federal Reserve system. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Everyone should pay their own way and reduce their health care costs by living wisely |
The vast majority do not live wisely (I suppose we could argue over that, but, as an example, the vast majority drinks alcohol- and that is not wise).
That is why we have laws, to try to mitigate stupidity. We want to mitigate stupidity because it impacts everyone, not just the individual. See John Dunne-For Whome the Bell Tolls.
I know the argument for freewill. I'm more of a determinist. Here is an interesting piece from a leading neuroscience on this very subject.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2011/07/the-brain-on-trial/8520/
I think a civil society believes it has responsibilities to all its members, not just the lucky or powerful. Individuals should also conduct themselves responsibly, so as not to burden society.
The responsibilities of the group and the responsibilities of the individual need to be balanced. The details of that balance is the hard part. Like it or not it has been decided that helmets and motorbikes are a public good.
As for the banks-Clinton relaxed the federal banking rules thereby allowing them greater freedom -to gamble. Nothing to do with socialism. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
problem's with the ones that don't die.
they become a burden on the health care system and we pay for it.
Kinda like the banks wanting freedom but then getting bailed out when the proverbial hit the fan. |
Which health care system would such a survivor be a burden to? Whether it's Obamacare or Private, someone else will pay. Doesn't bike insurance cover such an accident? Perhaps non-helmet wearers can pay a higher premium. Denying such care reduces the chances of that person becoming a productive person of society. If that person is dead, then their productivity is zero. Their family may have to rely on welfare to overcome their loss. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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ED209:
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| Which health care system would such a survivor be a burden to? ... , someone else will pay |
You answered your own question.
Injury from head trauma is extremely expensive and can require a life-time of care. Civil societies appear to require some responsibility. Good on you for wanting the wind to rush through your hair, but if that has the potential to cost a few million should you fall and survive, put on a skid-lid.
Seems to be the same argument regarding seat-belts and kiddie restraints. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
ED209:
| Quote: |
| Which health care system would such a survivor be a burden to? ... , someone else will pay |
You answered your own question.
Injury from head trauma is extremely expensive and can require a life-time of care. Civil societies appear to require some responsibility. Good on you for wanting the wind to rush through your hair, but if that has the potential to cost a few million should you fall and survive, put on a skid-lid.
Seems to be the same argument regarding seat-belts and kiddie restraints. |
His actions were foolish. I would like to know if motorcycle insurance policies pay out in such cases. Also, can there be a strong argument against covering risk takers in either the private or state sector? Introducing life style risks is itself problematic, seatbelts, kiddie restraints, smokers, obesity... Even staying in your house all day runs the risk of injury. Where does riding a bike with no helmet fit among these risks. Again, he was an idiot for riding without a helmet, and it seems obvious that wearing a helmet should be law. |
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