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Gorf
Joined: 25 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce, have you even been to Korea? |
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ibeattheborg
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: the deep blue sea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| No, 'Best Wishes Bruce' has already indicated that he has not been to Korea and thus has never worked for a hagwan.But in his last post he recommends that you volunteer to repaint your hagwan as a gesture of goodwill. Now, I know that he is living in Illinois but isn't that on planet earth? Seriously Bruce, cut some slack to the guys and girls on the ground here. |
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thejasman1
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoul, I just had the interview yesterday. I asked them about Win edu they said the old president working for them changed and now they are Ed up. They offered me 2.0-2.2 with 400 housing for 11-6. What do you guys think? Not worth it? Can I trust them? |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Gorf wrote: |
| Bruce, have you even been to Korea? |
No. Yet, he deems himself qualified to counsel us, from his international headquarters in Cornfield County, Illinois. |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| Gorf wrote: |
| Bruce, have you even been to Korea? |
No. Yet, he deems himself qualified to counsel us, from his international headquarters in Cornfield County, Illinois. |
And many people have labeled him as a troll.
In every thread he attempts to go against the grain and suggest it is the teachers fault, not the employers, no matter what the circumstances (look through his history if you don't believe me).
The problem with that is is that the people here have to be right some percentage of the time considering on the US Korea embassy page there's a warning to Americans considering working here. Best Wishes is a bonafide clown and should not be taken seriously. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| marsavalanche wrote: |
| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| Gorf wrote: |
| Bruce, have you even been to Korea? |
No. Yet, he deems himself qualified to counsel us, from his international headquarters in Cornfield County, Illinois. |
And many people have labeled him as a troll.
In every thread he attempts to go against the grain and suggest it is the teachers fault, not the employers, no matter what the circumstances (look through his history if you don't believe me).
The problem with that is is that the people here have to be right some percentage of the time considering on the US Korea embassy page there's a warning to Americans considering working here. Best Wishes is a bonafide clown and should not be taken seriously. |
And if it turns out that I am right.....if I build a productive working relationship with my co-workers... if I am successful in not using suspicion, hate, anger and antagonism as the medium of relating to Korean culture..... will you then come on here---you/all of you..... and admit that you have been grossly in error?
I don't think Korea has anything to do with the way you relate to people. The sense that I get is that all of this antagonism and baiting is probably the way you have related to people around you wherever you have been.
Unless I miss my guess, this "chip on the shoulder"/"won't be pushed around" mentality is how you relate to anyone at all. In the case of the Korean population they simply are turned to feed your rationalizations. |
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definitely maybe
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| marsavalanche wrote: |
| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| Gorf wrote: |
| Bruce, have you even been to Korea? |
No. Yet, he deems himself qualified to counsel us, from his international headquarters in Cornfield County, Illinois. |
And many people have labeled him as a troll.
In every thread he attempts to go against the grain and suggest it is the teachers fault, not the employers, no matter what the circumstances (look through his history if you don't believe me).
The problem with that is is that the people here have to be right some percentage of the time considering on the US Korea embassy page there's a warning to Americans considering working here. Best Wishes is a bonafide clown and should not be taken seriously. |
And if it turns out that I am right.....if I build a productive working relationship with my co-workers... if I am successful in not using suspicion, hate, anger and antagonism as the medium of relating to Korean culture..... will you then come on here---you/all of you..... and admit that you have been grossly in error?
I don't think Korea has anything to do with the way you relate to people. The sense that I get is that all of this antagonism and baiting is probably the way you have related to people around you wherever you have been.
Unless I miss my guess, this "chip on the shoulder"/"won't be pushed around" mentality is how you relate to anyone at all. In the case of the Korean population they simply are turned to feed your rationalizations. |
Sadly, you'll never find out. You're too old to be hired by Korean standards. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Bruce, you seem to be under the impression that Korean employers care about education. To put it bluntly, they generally don't, and you're in for a rude awakening if you come over here expecting to be working at a school in the Western sense.
As for doing extra work: hagwons are for-profit entities. All your volunteering does is allow your boss to pocket more cash. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
Bruce, you seem to be under the impression that Korean employers care about education. To put it bluntly, they generally don't, and you're in for a rude awakening if you come over here expecting to be working at a school in the Western sense.
As for doing extra work: hagwons are for-profit entities. All your volunteering does is allow your boss to pocket more cash. |
Thanks, Northway:
The "impression" I am under (and the premise my life has been dedicated to btw) is that people are able to determine their own outcomes. When I teach a class it is to use the subject at hand to teach the students how to solve problems and get their needs met in productive ways.
With apologies in advance, I must say that all I hear from many of the folks here is that they have been "victimized" and that they have no power to produce anything else. I am also very aware that I am dealing with fast-held beliefs and that Humans readily respond with fear in the guise of anger when anyone challenges their beliefs.
I suggest that what you are saying about Korean employers may be true (for some). Yet, even those employers recognize that a well-run business is more successful than a poorly run business. I daresay that I have yet to meet an employer yet who could not be engaged once they realized that the worker is enhancing their efforts and not confounding those efforts.
The only other comment is to reaffirm that Education occurs in the student's head. All the rest of this talk about apartments, and pay, and approaches and management is dross. Thats true in the States. Thats true in Korea. That dross is only as important as you make it and if you make it more important than what you are there for the results are predictable-- in Korea OR in the States.
BTW: If those employers really DON'T care, there is nothing to keep me from doing a bang-up job in the classroom, is there?  |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Again, you don't get it: the majority of hagwons view foreign teachers as replaceable commodities. As such, they can have a business that is both well-run (from their perspective) and horribly unscrupulous, as they really don't care about keeping their teachers around. Whether or not you're doing a good job has very little to do with how the school will view you, as parental happiness is far more important than learning (and parental satisfaction isn't usually based on learning). As for victimization, I don't see how you can see it as anything but if a school isn't paying pension, health insurance, or severance, considering these are all deliberate decisions on the part of the school that are very much against the law. You're offering your sympathies to criminals. |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
Bruce, you seem to be under the impression that Korean employers care about education. To put it bluntly, they generally don't, and you're in for a rude awakening if you come over here expecting to be working at a school in the Western sense.
As for doing extra work: hagwons are for-profit entities. All your volunteering does is allow your boss to pocket more cash. |
Thanks, Northway:
The "impression" I am under (and the premise my life has been dedicated to btw) is that people are able to determine their own outcomes. When I teach a class it is to use the subject at hand to teach the students how to solve problems and get their needs met in productive ways.
With apologies in advance, I must say that all I hear from many of the folks here is that they have been "victimized" and that they have no power to produce anything else. I am also very aware that I am dealing with fast-held beliefs and that Humans readily respond with fear in the guise of anger when anyone challenges their beliefs.
I suggest that what you are saying about Korean employers may be true (for some). Yet, even those employers recognize that a well-run business is more successful than a poorly run business. I daresay that I have yet to meet an employer yet who could not be engaged once they realized that the worker is enhancing their efforts and not confounding those efforts.
The only other comment is to reaffirm that Education occurs in the student's head. All the rest of this talk about apartments, and pay, and approaches and management is dross. Thats true in the States. Thats true in Korea. That dross is only as important as you make it and if you make it more important than what you are there for the results are predictable-- in Korea OR in the States.
BTW: If those employers really DON'T care, there is nothing to keep me from doing a bang-up job in the classroom, is there? |
Ignorance at its best. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Again, you don't get it: the majority of hagwons view foreign teachers as replaceable commodities. As such, they can have a business that is both well-run (from their perspective) and horribly unscrupulous, as they really don't care about keeping their teachers around. Whether or not you're doing a good job has very little to do with how the school will view you, as parental happiness is far more important than learning (and parental satisfaction isn't usually based on learning). As for victimization, I don't see how you can see it as anything but if a school isn't paying pension, health insurance, or severance, considering these are all deliberate decisions on the part of the school that are very much against the law. You're offering your sympathies to criminals. |
OK....maybe you folks over in Korea may not be as well-versed in what is happening here in the States, which may be why you keep telling me I am out of touch. The message you are sending, whether you mean to or not, is that what you are experiencing over in Korea is somehow unique.
a.) Here in the States teachers are likewise having their salary cut even after negotiation using very good Union.
b.) Here in the States pensions are being cut or not paid at all. Sound familiar?
c.) Here in the States people work at home, late into the night doing work they are not paid for. Sound familiar?
d.) Here in the States teachers buy their own supplies, and increasingly arrange their own field trips, secure AV materials and intervene in responsibilities outside of their purview such as counseling and discipline. I don't get where you folks think you are experiencing something special.
e.) Here in the States increasing numbers of stdents are ESL (Latino) and guess who has to take up the slack for the learning deficits of these students? Sound Familiar?
f.) Here in the States money is stolen, embezzled, misappropriated and misapplied. Sound familiar?
You can talk about how terrible Korea is but I can safely report you are not special. I think I may understand your situation better than you know. The difference is I choose not to be bound by my circumstances. I am a professional Educator; thats what I do. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Teachers are suffering cuts in the States due to budget shortfalls.
Teachers lose out in Korea due to criminal decisions on the part of their employers.
Regardless of your completely uneducated opinion on the matter, the State Department seems to disagree:
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| We commonly receive complaints from English teachers at private language schools called hagwons. The most frequent complaints are that the schools and/or employment agencies have misrepresented salaries, working conditions, living arrangements, and other benefits, including health insurance, even when the employee has a written contract. |
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1018.html#safety |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Again, you don't get it: the majority of hagwons view foreign teachers as replaceable commodities. As such, they can have a business that is both well-run (from their perspective) and horribly unscrupulous, as they really don't care about keeping their teachers around. Whether or not you're doing a good job has very little to do with how the school will view you, as parental happiness is far more important than learning (and parental satisfaction isn't usually based on learning). As for victimization, I don't see how you can see it as anything but if a school isn't paying pension, health insurance, or severance, considering these are all deliberate decisions on the part of the school that are very much against the law. You're offering your sympathies to criminals. |
OK....maybe you folks over in Korea may not be as well-versed in what is happening here in the States, which may be why you keep telling me I am out of touch. The message you are sending, whether you mean to or not, is that what you are experiencing over in Korea is somehow unique.
a.) Here in the States teachers are likewise having their salary cut even after negotiation using very good Union.
b.) Here in the States pensions are being cut or not paid at all. Sound familiar?
c.) Here in the States people work at home, late into the night doing work they are not paid for. Sound familiar?
d.) Here in the States teachers buy their own supplies, and increasingly arrange their own field trips, secure AV materials and intervene in responsibilities outside of their purview such as counseling and discipline. I don't get where you folks think you are experiencing something special.
e.) Here in the States increasing numbers of stdents are ESL (Latino) and guess who has to take up the slack for the learning deficits of these students? Sound Familiar?
f.) Here in the States money is stolen, embezzled, misappropriated and misapplied. Sound familiar?
You can talk about how terrible Korea is but I can safely report you are not special. I think I may understand your situation better than you know. The difference is I choose not to be bound by my circumstances. I am a professional Educator; thats what I do. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
I have taught in the states.
You don't know what you are talking about when you attempt to compare the circumstances with working in Korea.
No, you don't understand how things are here. You know how things are in Illinois. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
Teachers are suffering cuts in the States due to budget shortfalls.
Teachers lose out in Korea due to criminal decisions on the part of their employers.
Regardless of your completely uneducated opinion on the matter, the State Department seems to disagree:
| Quote: |
| We commonly receive complaints from English teachers at private language schools called hagwons. The most frequent complaints are that the schools and/or employment agencies have misrepresented salaries, working conditions, living arrangements, and other benefits, including health insurance, even when the employee has a written contract. |
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1018.html#safety |
NOW, who's out of touch! |
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