Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ippy]

I used to live in Nagano. Its a nice place, and its somewhat proud of the fact that it was the host area to the 1998 winter olympics. I mean it honestly should be, it has some great resorts in and around the area (shiga kogen, hakuba, myoko, nozawa, kita-shiga, madarao, and loads of other smaller areas).

But a few things struck me about the area.

The first is the lack of young people. The city, if anything has contracted since the olympics as young people immediately leave for opportunities in tokyo or kansai. I was reliably informed that they all come scurrying back in the winter season, but the rest of teh year its pretty much under 17 and over 40s. Im not just exaggerating, as i say i did live there, and it was noticeable.

Of course, this isnt unique to nagano, it happens not only all over japan, but all over the world (kids leaving for tokyo, just as they leave for seoul or london). What i am suggesting though is that the winter olympics was pretty mcuh irrelevant in the grand cosmic scheme of things. The city always felt very much like it got murdered by the bubble.

You have on the one hand the absolutely STUNNING zenkoji temple around which the city lives and breathes, and then on the other hand you have half empty departo, a snack bar district taking up way more of the very small downtown than it has any right to take up, an indoor shopping area full of the kind of mom and pop stores youd find in korea (no offence korea), and an incredibly small (for a japanese city) international presence in the form of retail chains.

Compared to hamamatsu (where i lived prior to nagano, which is a bustling and vibrant city about 4 times smaller in population, but has much more going on), its pretty evident that nagano was at some point in teh very recent past a city stretched far beyond its own natural limits.

Of course now its found a kind of stable equilibrium (or at least it had in 2008/9 when i lived there (and seemed a bit more fun in 2011 when i visited it again for a couple of nights - but that was mid winter season when 'everyone comes back'). But it feels like its keeping its head just above water and waiting for a rescue rather than capable of progressing on its own.

I honestly have no idea what happened, i dont know if nagano was always on a downward trajectory even before the winter olympics came or whether the draw of bigger cities as the "only place for real opportunity" was actually that big a deal. Im only going by what i personally felt about the place just from ambling around it and comparing it to the other places i lived and visited in Japan.

Its quite a beatiful region and if i had the opportunity to go back there (one i'll probably make for myself in march next year), id do it in a second. I genuinely love it, but the fact is this: i dont know how much the olympics hurt the economy of nagano, but ten years on it doesnt seem to have helped it all that much.

Oh, and about those olympics.
Heres the podium. It was probably set up as a tribute to the olympics after the event to be looked after and cherished. But although nagano people are proud as hell to have been the hosts of it, well, i think the picture speaks for itself.

http://i52.tinypic.com/33c17bq.jpg

Oh that reminds me! Yudanaka (i stayed there this year when i went to shiga kogen).

Host resort town for the olympic village. Looks like any other semi run-down onsen village in japan. Lots of half empty hotels and the big money comes from the snow monkeys as far as foreign tourists go. There's a few olympics memorabilia in the area, but lifes gone very much back to normal. And normal is pretty much every other small town orbiting nagano city (i lived in one of them). Again, you wouldnt know an international event even come to the area. Aside a couple of bigish hotels (and we arent talking hilton here - we're talking big motels like you get in korea), it looks like it looked in teh photos from 40 or 50 years ago. Probably deliberate, but still if theres been a flood of money and redevelopment here, its hard to know exactly where it went.

[david218533]

I totally agree with what "ippy" said.. Olympics doesn't help the growth of the HOST city.
What the olympics brings is DEBT and white elephants... As I posted in another threads on Dave's... Olympics is a massive SCAM!

If you look at ALL past olympic games, the cities that have held it are in DEBT, after borrowing heavily to finance it.. After the very short 2 week event, the venues are left to ROT.. Just google Beijing, Athens, Vancouver and even Sydney Olympic DEBT and white elephants. You will see all the empty and abandoned venues that took MILLIONS to build..

ALL the news reports are saying "THIS is going to bring $$$$$$ for Korea = Tourist and Foreign Investment" But, that's what all the other previous Host city said, just look at Vancouver, the taxpayers had to foot a bill of $875,000,000 to cover the budget blowout... This is what happens at every Olympic event, massive blowouts in cost and budgets.

Daegu has the biggest stadium in Korea, with a seating of over 65,000. Guess what, in the IOC CONTRACT, host nations are demanded to build a 80,000 to 110,000 seat stadium to house the opening and closing ceremony.. What is the city of Pyeongchang going to do with stadium that size after the olynpics?? Hold Rain or Wondergirls concerts?

I really love sports and like watching them, I was even a volunteer helper at the Sydney 2000 games and like going to see the Korean Baseball... I just don't see the cost out weighing the benefits... I love Korea, and that's why I'm still living here... Korea probably had the right to win this bid, after plowing billons of won to win over the IOC committee.

The only people that are truly happy right now are the construction companies because they are laughing all the way to the bank... At the end of the games, who is going to fork out the bill >>> Taxpayers... NOT one olympic host nation has ever come out of holding an event like this in the black $$$.

[Stout]

[rkc76sf]

[david218533]

what "rkc76sf" said about not all olympics made host nations go into debt was true. Beijing was the only example of a nation that didn't have to go into debt to hold the games, as it only spent $45 billion (pocket change) to hold the 08 games, but that was because of it's supersized robust ecomony and millions of underpaid workers, they were able to achieve that goal.
What my main point was: what do countries do AFTER the games are over, all the venues are usually abandoned and unused, which cost the taxpayer millions of dollars.. "White elephants"
All that money used with no plan to use the venues for future events.
This event might bring Korea into the world media spotlight, but after the games end and all the tourist/ media have departed.. The one thing left for us to do is to pay the bill... That is something I don't want for All Koreans to have suffer through increased taxes.... just so we can put on a expensive 2 week show for the world...

[PastorYoon]

Can the committee still change their minds? In my opinion, the Olympics shouldn't be in Korea.

[marsavalanche]

[PatrickGHBusan]

[Mr. BlackCat]

[david218533]

Mr Black Cat, are you sure about those host nations you said that actually made into the black or made major improvement to the actual host city.
It's just not me or a small group of uneducated people that are saying the Olympics is a debt ridden event but also professors of economics..

"There has never been an Olympic Games that has made a profit," says Robert Barney, director of the International Centre for Olympic Studies at the University of Western Ontario. Barney

Have a look at this website to see if LA, Atlanta and Calgary actually made it into the black.. Mate have you noticed the state of LA and Atlanta economy these days??

"the 1988 Winter Olympics in Calgary in Alberta, Canada, and the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. Organizers of both games claimed multimillion-dollar surpluses, but neither included massive federal spending when adding up costs."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113351145

Mate, I'm all for fun and games, But while people were having "fun" during the 2008 Beijing Games, millions of displaced people were left homeless because of govt. "relocating" them to build these massive overbudgeted venues.. Now less now get into the environmental impact that the games has, Korea has already broken one of it's law to win this bid for the olympics, think "Pyeongchang greenbelt and nature reserves"... All this in the name of having "fun"
But hey, I guess I'm one of them too and after the Olympics in 2018 are over, I'll probably hit the ski resorts in Pyeongchang since it will probably be the best ski resort in Korea..
Yes, I know that this will employ thousands of people during the next few years and I'm not assuming that this will be done by robots, but what I'm saying is WHAT are they going to do after the olympics are over.. The track record isn't that good for host nations that able to reuse those vennues.

The reason why I get upset is because I been through the whole experience during the 2000 games in Sydney.. We were sooo happy to win the bid to host, we built huge and new infrasture but when your govt. start increase taxes to pay off this event, it makes you a little upset. That's what happened to the residents of Sydney, and we are still paying for this event 11 years down the track..

The question is: Will Korea do it right? They have 7 years to plan and prepare for this, but given my lack of faith in "people" in general and what I saw and experience at previous "world" events in Korea, I really begin to question the ability of the govt. to run this event. A couple of years down the track, the construction companies and the olympic dept. will start complaining that they have "underestimated" the cost and start asking the Korean govt. for a bailout.. Corruption and scandal is never far away when it comes to money. In the end the taxpayer is the one that has to fork it over... And I'm one of them... I'm all for this olympics creating jobs and helping a nation come together to build an event like the olympics... but at what cost... all to have abit of FUN!

[hattub]

For a country that is trying to grow the popularity of its winter sports programs this is great news. They will have all the facilities they need to help develop their athletes. Some people might think that's not important, but international results are definitely important to the Korean psyche. But of course this all costs money.

Other benefits will include the new KTX connecting Pyeongchang and Gangneung to Seoul. People from Seoul will be able to get to Alpensia ski resort in less than an hour, and in the summer get to the beaches in just over an hour. This should help increase tourism substantially.

Gangwondo is trying to promote itself as a tourist destination in north east Asia. They have already invested a lot of money into resorts, casinos, and infrastructure. The Olympics should go a long way in promoting the region and facilities they already have.

Living in Gangneung, and planning on being here long term. I'm pretty excited about the Olympics. Not very often the city you live in gets to host an event such as this. People in this area needed the boost. Now hopefully it translates to more people wanting to study English.

[Mr. BlackCat]

david:

Atlanta and LA most certainly gained profits and were criticized for being so commercial. Many others did to, but I guess it depends on who you read and what they consider to be profits. See, many nay-sayers (ie NPR) will take into consideration the whole cost of the event, from bid process to security to construction to medal production while only adding the revenue brought into the city during the 2-3 weeks the Olympics actually take place. That's a bit misleading in my opinion. It's like looking at how much you've spent on University, comparing it to the money earned within 1 year of graduating and declaring the whole process a failure. In my, and many economists', point of view you have to consider the employment and investment boom, the tourism before and after the games, the infrastructure and the sports legacy it leaves your country with.

This is not to say there have been Olympic disasters. I'm form Montreal, perhaps the biggest financial mess up in the Olympic history. My point is that the Olympics itself doesn't necessarily cause this sort of loss, it's how it's prepared. There have been success stories and profits so I think dismissing (or wholly ignoring) this fact hurts those that want to keep the Games responsible.

In recent decades, the Olympics have become so much more than just sports. It's a chance for the host country to showcase their culture, business, industry and tourism. After the Vancouver Olympics last year many Koreans told me they desperately wanted to visit BC after seeing those magical mountains for 2 weeks straight. This sort of thing is not calculated in the final total of the Olympics, which as I said is misleading. The Seoul 88 Olympics added it to the list of world class cities and you bet that influenced foreign investment, tourism and prestige to this day. Almost every host sees an increase in tourism for up to 5 years afterwards (Sydney being one exception due to the global downturn in tourism as I mentioned after 9/11). These hosts are added to annual world cup and other sporting events, bringing in more money down the line.

As for environmental concerns, I completely agree. Sochi, for example, has probably done alot of harm as far as I have read. But again, that isn't the event's fault, it's the organizers. Vancouver was a very green Olympics. Of course you can pick things apart, but every human action has environmental impact. Should we all stay at home in the dark?

Displacing people is also of concern. It's a major worry in Rio for 2016. But again, it's not like the Brazilian or Chinese government was handing out bread in these slums before the big bad Olympics came and told them to burn it all down. In fact, oftentimes the Olympics helps us focus on these problems in these countries and stops these governments from doing even worse things.

The PyeongChang Olympics might be a great thing or they might be terrible, or they might be in the middle. But to just assume that Olympics=disaster is closed minded and simply wrong. The Olympic Movement has done lots of good in many places, just as it has done lots of bad too. The funny thing in Vancouver 2010 was the people smashing the Bay's windows and complaining about Native rights all seemed to be white middle class kids. The Olympics are an easy target because it's sports and it's superficial. I say it's about way more than sport, and it can be successful if we make it stay responsible.

[Captain Corea]

[Speedling]

I'm looking forward to getting some skiing in this winter! Korea getting the olympic bid is re-assuring me that there must be some half decent slopes over here

[mayorgc]

I have a giant soft spot for Korea, but I sorta hate how Koreans act during International sporting events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVDz3XfBQa8

1988 boxing brou ha ha

2002/2010 with James Hewish death threats

2006 with bomb threats to Swiss embassies