Korean Job Discussion Forums

[DBXD]

Boundary issues in the sense of touching you and other people and totally going out of control and downright reckless.

For instance:
It's movie time and the kids crowd around the computer to watch this Youtube video of Mickey Mouse I picked out (Great vids by the the way. There is three of them: Type in "Mickey's Trailer," "Goofy Goes Fishing" (<-----My favorite) and "Pluto Bubble Bee"--they are all classics and date back to the 40's. Its amazing how they still captivate the young childrens' hearts and minds)

Anyway, as we are watching the videos and the kids all jostle for position--think of the ajumma at the bus stop getting in line to get on the bus x10. Then one of the little girls wants to inevitably sit on my lap. It's harmless, I know, but it looks weird. I have to shoo them off of me like they're a leper. American kid's would NEVER try to sit on a teacher's lap, but these kids are so touchy-feely, and it makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

Second reasoning, is that they have no knowledge of pushing the limit.
I can go out into the halls and see kids throwing a soccer ball up against the wall, or throwing paper on the floor; just not giving an F$%$. They throw crap on the floor and expect someone else to clean it up. Or open the windows up and crawl out onto the roof of the school. Do they learn this at home? Do the parents ever reprimand their kids? American parents will scold their kids for every step out of line (most of the time) and American teachers will harp on every misstep they make--but Korean teachers and mothers just excuse their bad behavior and pamper them. F that! These kids need a slap (from their mothers) or a stern talking to and they need to learn some respect for authority!

They just don't know when enough is enough. I've taught in American public schools, and the kids were way better behaved. Most of you don't have first-hand accounts to be able to compare the two kinds of children, but let me tell you, I'd rather have a 4th or 5th grade American class over a 4th or 5th grade Korean kids class any day.





Rant. Over.

[coralreefer_1]

While I am not an English teacher, I have taught Taekwondo extensively in both the US and Korea, and while the subjects are vastly different, at the end of the day you are trying to convey information to students in a way that is fun, entertaining, and actually retained and build upon.

With that in mind I have to agree with much of what you have said. The only part I would question was the comparison between students in both countries and how respectful they are.

Sure there are differences, but in the US kids know you cant touch them, know they have the same rights as you, know that in all reality they don't have to do anything you tell them..etc etc. IN Korea the kids may be more wild, but I have found they when they are doing something wrong and get reprimanded (especially by a Korean), they are more easily controlled.

Of course, these are different experiences in different environments with different methods of teaching. However I have learned over my years here in Korea that unlike the US where parents of students tend to regard a teacher as someone who not only teaches subjects, but also makes efforts to mold the student into a responsible human being, in Korea (and especially in the case of foreign teachers) parents do not expect or even want anything more than "by the book" teaching.

A few examples -

In my taekwondo classes in both countries, especially with younger children, I would use an expression "I can do it". This is designed to instill in the kids an "I can do it" attitude, in an attempt to convince them that there is nothing they cannot do in this world as long as they try and put in the effort needed to accomplish it. Maybe I am strange but it seemed to me to be an ok thing, but I have had more than a few Korean mothers call me complaining about this expression....their reasoning is that they do not want there child to believe they can "do it" because there are some things in life that cannot be done no matter how hard you try. On that point I can see their logic, but to complain about instilling an attitude that "hard work pays off" has always seemed strange to me.

In another case, I teach lesson points and do different exercises that build such traits as focus, memory, teamwork, leadership...etc. These games and exercises are specifically designed to teach children these traits, traits that most normal people would find valuable, especially to students in a nation where they spend so many hours in school. However I have had mothers complain about it..saying I should just teach Taekwondo..that it is not my job to try to make their child a better person or more productive member of society.

In the end, as foreigners here working with Korean children, no matter how frustrated we may be by these kinds of issues, there is very little expectation for kids to do anything or learn anything from a foreigner other than the most basic skill in which they are in the class for. Anything other than that may be met with raves from some parents, but also complaints from others no matter how well-intentioned we may be.

[thegadfly]

OP,

You understand that these "issues" are YOUR issues, right? You sum it up pretty well in that "American kids wouldn't behave this way!" They wouldn't -- welcome to a cultural difference in standard behavior.

The touching thing made me uncomfortable, and even after a decade here, I STILL cannot bring myself to be as touchy-feely with the younger ones as parents and students might prefer...but I've gotten better. A decade of teaching in the US had taught me not to even put a hand on a shoulder, or give a pat on the back...do you think that is somehow healthier than a little kid wanting to sit on the lap of someone they like and trust? The "issue" involved in the situation is a cultural one, and frankly, I think it is the US that has the less healthy preferences in this case.

The lack of awareness and concern you mention is also bothersome, but it is also a cultural difference. Young children ARE given more freedom to run amok -- and yes, it does bother me as well. I do not allow it to occur near me or in my class. Sometimes it feels like an uphill battle, and sometimes I feel like I am making progress, but either way, it is another cultural difference.

You may as well tackle the "laughing when nervous" thing or the "won't answer me when the answer is no" thing. I try to "correct" both behaviors, but I recognize and explain to them that it is a cultural difference, and that they need to overcome such differences in order to communicate effectively with folks from other cultures -- knowing the words of a language isn't enough if the way you act makes folks uncomfortable....

And that last bit swings both ways....

[Mr. Peabody]

[northway]

I love the lack of boundaries here, it makes it a lot easier to get close to the kids.

[Mr. Peabody]

[markincal]

I'm tempted to write a sentence or two about cultural relativism, but I suppose that would be more appropriate as it's own subject. Anywho. So I'll be coming to Korea (Ulsan) for my first time next month. I accepted a PS job through Korvia. I've been an English teacher in California for five years, both in public and private school. I've taught Jr. high and high school. I love my job. It's the best thing since sliced cheese.

For the past few years, because of some connections my school has with a local Korean family, I've had the opportunity to teach small groups of Korean kids over the summer. Up until this summer, I've consistently had a positive experience. This year, it's like a fiery whirlwind from the deepest reaches of Hell. I've got four kids. Three boys, one girl. Ages 12, 12, 11, and 9. (I don't know if these are US ages or Korean ages, though I suspect the latter.) So anyway, the two older boys (12, and 11), are real terrors: bad attitudes, foul language, no touching (or any other) boundaries. They draw filthy pictures. They beat eachother mercilessly. They destroy things and laugh at my dismay. They scream (literally scream) as I teach. They tease the younger boy (the 9 year old) until he cries. They openly and aggressively mock me as I try to teach. Luckily, I've only got thirteen days of this left. When I talk to the Korean parents the kids are staying with, they say that their parents in Korea work too much and don't have time for discipline. They say, "that's just how Korean children are."

Ok. Sorry do the rant. I'm glad I got that out, though. So have I just been lucky up until now? Is this the norm, rather than a frighteningly bad exception to the rule? I put down high school as my first preference and now I'm terrified I'll get elementary.

[denverdeath]

[DBXD]

[myenglishisno]

Korean kids are always extremes. They're either as loud and obnoxious as they can possibly be, or they're so quiet that you have to pretty much shake them in order to even get a squeak. I have Elementary kids that scream so loud on a regular basis that I'm afraid the glass will shatter. I have Middle School kids that are so quiet, even when I point at them and make them read to the rest of the class, their words are barely audible and I often end up re-reading their part.

Korean adults are extremes too a lot of the time.

Things Koreans don't seem to value:

-Indoor/outdoor voices
-Quiet classrooms (children aren't expected to sit quietly when a teacher is teaching)
-Queuing/keeping to one side/making room (the only way to get past people is to push them)

Up until a few years ago, the kids didn't cover their mouths/noses when they sneezed either. They'd just sneeze in whatever direction they were facing which often happens to be the teacher.

So yeah, it's kind of annoying. I think what it comes down to here is that kids aren't disciplined at all until they hit JHS/HS. Quite the opposite, they're pampered.

Everyone is always going on and on about how hard it is to be a Korean kid. It is in how much time they have to spend at school and that's about it. They have no responsibility or real consequences for their actions until that big exam at the end of High School. They can't fail a class, they can't be held back a grade and they're only disciplined in a knee-jerk way where the teacher just hits them and forgets about it yet they're never told WHY they're being disciplined or why they shouldn't do X, Y and Z. They're just hit and screamed at. It makes a great number of them rather resentful which is why you see some of the crazy behaviours (adjosshi and adjumma).

It's funny, when I meet a High School student here who is 16 years old (Western age), I think of them as children. They have no responsibility or life experience whatsoever. When I was their age, I had a part time job, a car and lots of extra-curricular obligations. Koreans don't get that much responsibility until they're in their mid-20s. They don't even move out until 30.

The only thing expected of them is to follow and not stick out.

[premiummince]

[northway]

This thread is a bit over the top. Out of the 200 kids at my school, we've got maybe two or three bad apples. Discipline is almost never an issue. Point being, if you have a proper disciplinary system in place at your school, you probably won't have any problems.

[DBXD]

[marsavalanche]

[northway]

My point was that the above posts claiming that Korean kids are horribly behaved across the board isn't really accurate. No, I haven't worked in a bad school. There are good schools out there where the kids' discipline isn't an issue. Again: my school has strong discipline from top to bottom, foreigners and Koreans alike, and we hardly have any disciplinary issues. I know plenty of people with similar experiences to my own. I don't really see the issues we have here as being any different than the similarly class-based issues you would have in a Western school.