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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Setaro wrote: |
I'd love to see some of these "professional" teachers show me how they'd do a student-centric approach when your after school/camp class consists of forty five 1st and 2nd grade students who speak almost zero English.
Alone. With no co-teacher.
"Bear, Fish, Dog, Cat. Now colour in these pictures of those animals."
Lesson done. Nightmare over. |
That is what classroom management skills and pedagogy are for....
It may not be easy to acheive but it is doable. It would also be trial and error at first and you can do it using ONLY the teaching material provided.
How?
Well off the top of my head and based on experience: breaking down the lesson in smaller parts and with some sort of change of pace.
Start with a brief overview of the material and then break the class up into smaller groups of 6-10 students, each with a task to achieve. Give them a set time to do this. When thats done regroup the class and have each group show how far they got with the activity (this can be speaking, writing, dialogue or simple vocab).
Later in the lesson, build a learning game around the material and reform the work groups you assembled earlier, have some sort of participative game where you pit each team againts the other.
Other ideas: use multimedia when available..
Holy crap the net is chock full of sites that are litterally busrting with teaching materials, activities, handouts....that however would require some effort and dedication to your job and its always far easier to sit in on your ass, call your kids aholes and be content with blaming everyone for your troubles.
Heck thats the Daves mantra for many posters here....
Lets guess who loses out in this deal?
Yep its the kids...but hey who cares, they are just little aholes and should shut it lest they disturb your sleeping on the job time. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
People on this forum are so bitchy sometimes. Ladies, put away the handbags and remove the stick from your backside. What the OP said in his/her own slightly crude way, was something most teachers feel or have felt at some point. It's hot, the kids don't want to be there at the end of a long semester and they are probably acting out.
I for one, have been in a similar situation, so I don't mind lending some support in terms of ideas and tips.
Loosen up peeps, it's summer time. |
So...just so we are both on the same page...you wouldn't have any problems with a teacher calling you or your children (assuming they were in his class) what the "teacher" here called his students? |
He could just have been having a bad day and ill-advisedly wrote it when he was still feeling a bit upset - who knows? Like I alluded to, the way he expressed his/her frustration was not the most eloquent but I do know where he's coming from. Anyone who has kids or works with kids sometimes feels this way, so rather than get on my high horse, I thought it would be more useful to steer the OP towards a more positive direction.
And yes, kids can be little assholes sometimes. You don't remember being a kid, and acting out to get your own way?
Don't be too quick to jump on the PC bandwagon. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Did you even read what the OP wrote ddeubel?
I am all for helping someone but that person needs to have the attitude and demeanor that says he is willing to try and work.
Now, re-read the OP and tell me where you see someone wanting to teach and looking for actual advice...
Where does it say a Teacher can call his students little aholes and wants them to shut up so he can do nothing.
Seriously, the support the OP got from some posters is hardly surprising. This IS Daves afterall. |
JrWhite and PatrickBusan,
I did read what the OP wrote but what I didn't do is rush to judgement and come in ablazing with a holier than thou attitude. That won't change anything or help in any way.
I also understand the register of this forum, that kind of language is how this board works and I took it in that context. If we had been at a conference and he'd said that, I might be taken aback. But still, I wouldn't label him and others. Many who do - who rant against backpacking teachers etc.... often do so only to boost their own self image and not to really help that teacher.
At bottom, I understand all teachers have bad days. Teachers come in many forms - and that's good. Let's support them and stop this whole black and white , good teacher / bad teacher comedy routine. That's all I'm saying.
Maybe many don't want to "turn the other cheek". That's okay. But I'm not going to judge based on a few sentences written on a forum like this (others have also mentioned this).
DD |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Did you even read what the OP wrote ddeubel?
I am all for helping someone but that person needs to have the attitude and demeanor that says he is willing to try and work.
Now, re-read the OP and tell me where you see someone wanting to teach and looking for actual advice...
Where does it say a Teacher can call his students little aholes and wants them to shut up so he can do nothing.
Seriously, the support the OP got from some posters is hardly surprising. This IS Daves afterall. |
JrWhite and PatrickBusan,
I did read what the OP wrote but what I didn't do is rush to judgement and come in ablazing with a holier than thou attitude. That won't change anything or help in any way.
I also understand the register of this forum, that kind of language is how this board works and I took it in that context. If we had been at a conference and he'd said that, I might be taken aback. But still, I wouldn't label him and others. Many who do - who rant against backpacking teachers etc.... often do so only to boost their own self image and not to really help that teacher.
At bottom, I understand all teachers have bad days. Teachers come in many forms - and that's good. Let's support them and stop this whole black and white , good teacher / bad teacher comedy routine. That's all I'm saying.
Maybe many don't want to "turn the other cheek". That's okay. But I'm not going to judge based on a few sentences written on a forum like this (others have also mentioned this).
DD |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| re-read the OP and tell me where you see someone wanting to teach and looking for actual advice |
Let's see, you get thrown a lot of summer classes because the kids are not in school now. That makes you lazy because you want to lighten the load?
It makes perfectly good sense also that a new teacher would have a lot of work ahead of them in preparing lessons. Using prepared lessons while creating your own is not only wise but time saving.
Now, the question is, do I see in YOU someone wanting to share teaching experiences?
Your chance to turn things around now. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I can sympathize to some extent. When I came here with zero teaching experience I had no clue how to manage the classroom, and the kids were running rings around me. I was so frustrated that I remember telling my friend that they were like animals in a zoo.
Of course, I can now see that it was down to me and my inadequate teaching skills which I have steadily improved over time.
Anyway, we don't know the true situation in the OP's class. There might be some genuinely bad apples, or spoilt rich kids that are simply beyond the influence of an EFL teacher. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| re-read the OP and tell me where you see someone wanting to teach and looking for actual advice |
Let's see, you get thrown a lot of summer classes because the kids are not in school now. That makes you lazy because you want to lighten the load?
It makes perfectly good sense also that a new teacher would have a lot of work ahead of them in preparing lessons. Using prepared lessons while creating your own is not only wise but time saving.
Now, the question is, do I see in YOU someone wanting to share teaching experiences?
Your chance to turn things around now. |
Just did share experiences in my last post but the point remains intact: the OP did not post in a way that was conducive to receiving help. It is not acceptable to call your students little aholes, at anytime or in any forum.
Why? Because that indicates something about how you view your students.
Also, the title of the post was not all that inviting to advice: help a lazy teacher like me. Furthermore : help me find some activities that will have these little aholes shut up and sit down and leave me alone is NOT teaching.
The summer camp may be a curveball from the employer and may be challenging but guess what....teaching is challenging and this task is not that monumental.
Hint: if you want advice from professionals or long term teachers, why not present your case with a tad more maturity and show you are actually willing to work.
I wish him luck getting through this camp and wish his students luck too getting through this camp with a teacher who just wants them to sit down, shut up and let him be.
You want advice, scroll back to my previous post however, that was just general advice on how to approach the task.
As for the kids, anyone who has been in Korea for more than 5 minutes knows that Korean kids do not truly get summer vacation. In fact, most kids get summer homework that covers the entire summer and generally attend more hakwons and camps to continue learning. We can agree or disagree on the merits of this but it is a fact of life for k-students. They are fully aware of this so in no way are they surprised to be in a summer study camp. They might not be thrilled to be there but there are so many ways for a teacher to make that at least fun and interesting for them.
A teacher would have a lot of work ahead of them preparing, but that is NOT what the OP said or asked, please re-read his OP.... |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Just did share experiences in my last post. |
The experiences you shared represent pretty much standard teaching approach. They hardly help a teacher faced with having to reinvent himself to satisfy students who are basically on summer vacation rampage mode.
Through the course of normal hours, there is constant stress on the teacher to find new material in terms of fillers. The teacher might think to borrow heavily on tried and trusted strategies and want to expand on them.
Summer vacation class quickly disabuses him of that. Sure, he's taking their money. But he fully wants to teach them, do his best.
However, conditions can be like hell, certainly not conducive to those necessary for your techniques to be even vaguely a starter.
His Op has been altered, but I do remember the original. There was nothing there that offended me, would send my kid to him anytime. .
In fact, he would gain preference. My antennae go up when the letter of teaching gets emphasised and not the spirit.
Why the emphasis placed on the OP's words in his initial post? To me it's obvious that he didn't mean it.
In Korea we're looking at charisma, something the OP has in spades. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]His Op has been altered, but I do remember the original. There was nothing there that offended me, would send my kid to him anytime. [quote]
I remember the original too. He said he was lazy, he said the kids were a..holes, he said he wanted some zero prep activities to keep them quiet, he said he wanted to give them something he didn't have to correct all the time. Sure we've all thought this way occasionally but it's not the right way to think and I think people who cared about what they do would feel guilty when they felt this attitude creeping into their work. If they realised they felt like this all the time, it'd probably time to get out of teaching. As many people do.
I think some people, myself included, were a little bit shocked that a teacher was so open about feeling this way that he could freely communicate it to the message board as if it was a totally normal request. It also gives anyone not a teacher reading these message boards a pretty bad impression of the profession. yes, Yes, I know most people are only here for a year or two, don't see it as a profession and really don't care but we all tend to get lumped together.
As for you claiming you would be happy to send your kid to a teacher who thought like this, I think you've got pretty low standards. Also, what's the point? You could just print out some worksheets from the internet and get them to do them at home.
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Just did share experiences in my last post. |
The experiences you shared represent pretty much standard teaching approach. They hardly help a teacher faced with having to reinvent himself to satisfy students who are basically on summer vacation rampage mode.
Through the course of normal hours, there is constant stress on the teacher to find new material in terms of fillers. The teacher might think to borrow heavily on tried and trusted strategies and want to expand on them.
Summer vacation class quickly disabuses him of that. Sure, he's taking their money. But he fully wants to teach them, do his best.
However, conditions can be like hell, certainly not conducive to those necessary for your techniques to be even vaguely a starter.
His Op has been altered, but I do remember the original. There was nothing there that offended me, would send my kid to him anytime. .
In fact, he would gain preference. My antennae go up when the letter of teaching gets emphasised and not the spirit.
Why the emphasis placed on the OP's words in his initial post? To me it's obvious that he didn't mean it.
In Korea we're looking at charisma, something the OP has in spades. |
Yeah ok, those techniques are not adaptable nor are they better than asking your little ahole students to shut up and leave you alone. 
Seriously, any teacher worth his or her salt would know these techniques I briefly outlined are adaptable and flexible to many teaching environments. Nevermind the fact that summer camps are hardly hell or situations where teaching techniques are void of effectiveness.
Lets get real here: the OP posted a thread to get some tips on how to kill the time he has to spend with these kids. The thread title and his OP speak volumes. I did not make these things up, but many people in this thread conveniently ignore the fact he qualified his students (kids) as aholes and asked for activities that will get them to sit down, shut up and not require he get involved.
Perhaps he was frustrated, we all get frustrated sometimes, but this sounded deeper than that.
At any rate my brief suggestion was a STARTING point. I am not about to do this persons job for him, if he has been a teacher for more than a week and he hinted at being a good teacher in his posts, then he can surely take what I wrote, go from there and come up with something more constructive than what he asked for initially.
Now he altered his OP and for good reason and all we have left is this gem:
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jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
Thats quite the gem....good lord....yeah he is a pro and I am happy to know you would send your kid to him, no questions asked. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
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jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
Thats quite the gem....good lord....yeah he is a pro and I am happy to know you would send your kid to him, no questions asked. |
if i had a kid, i'd send my kid to the op's school. the op sounds like a straight shootin' son of ma gun. i'd never send my kid to pat's school. pat sounds like a bsing used car salesman. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| he qualified his students (kids) as aholes and asked for activities that will get them to sit down, shut up and not require he get involved. |
I read him saying they must 'STOP being a/holes'. Students who wreck classes for other more responsive students and intent on wasting their parents' money are indeed BEING a/holes. 'Sit down' and 'shut up' means stop running around in a human chain from classroom to classroom shouting at top of their heads.
| Quote: |
| Perhaps he was frustrated, we all get frustrated sometimes, but this sounded deeper than that. |
'sounded deeper.' Mmm, I'd say not good enough to warrant your harsh views.
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| if he has been a teacher for more than a week |
Now you see here I don't take your 'one week' literally. You should perhaps give the OP some slack in kind.
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jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ramen wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
Thats quite the gem....good lord....yeah he is a pro and I am happy to know you would send your kid to him, no questions asked. |
if i had a kid, i'd send my kid to the op's school. the op sounds like a straight shootin' son of ma gun. i'd never send my kid to pat's school. pat sounds like a bsing used car salesman. |
Great thing too since I no longer teach. You would have a hard time finding my school.
You go right ahead and have a kid...lets see what you do then buddy.  |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Ramen wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
Thats quite the gem....good lord....yeah he is a pro and I am happy to know you would send your kid to him, no questions asked. |
if i had a kid, i'd send my kid to the op's school. the op sounds like a straight shootin' son of ma gun. i'd never send my kid to pat's school. pat sounds like a bsing used car salesman. |
Great thing too since I no longer teach. You would have a hard time finding my school.
You go right ahead and have a kid...lets see what you do then buddy. |
so you are a used car salesman.
my kids have all grown up and have kids of their own.  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ramen wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Ramen wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
jondepoer wrote:
I have better things to do than to ram a textbook down their throats, so I want some [b]"turn-my-brain-off" activities that will cause them to sit down, shut up, and stop being little assholes. [/b] |
Thats quite the gem....good lord....yeah he is a pro and I am happy to know you would send your kid to him, no questions asked. |
if i had a kid, i'd send my kid to the op's school. the op sounds like a straight shootin' son of ma gun. i'd never send my kid to pat's school. pat sounds like a bsing used car salesman. |
Great thing too since I no longer teach. You would have a hard time finding my school.
You go right ahead and have a kid...lets see what you do then buddy. |
so you are a used car salesman.
my kids have all grown up and have kids of their own. |
Congrats on the grandkids then.
As for the used car salesman...not my field sorry.
Education for 15 years (5 in Canada, 11 in Korea), consultant for 10 (while teaching) and since 2008 public sector work in international relations for various departments.
Never bought a used car in my life either...can`t stand used car salesmen.
I do however have enough teaching experience and qualifications to offer up informed advice to serious teachers but hey, to you I am a used car salesman, thems are the breaks and whatever floats your boat.
Take care.
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