Korean Job Discussion Forums

Chokse · Joined: 22 May 2009

The one issue I have with the Korean education system, and it seems to be something TJ is ignoring or not mentioning out of convenience, is that the focus is ENTIRELY on math and science test scores. There is little to no teaching of humanities, and the knowledge they do get in math and science is often not practical.

Yes, they can answer the hell out of test questions, but when asked to perform real world math and science skills, they come up very short. Has anyone else noticed that we have not seen any Nobel Prize winners in any math or science related fields coming from Korea. These folks have some of the best scores in the world on math/science aptitude tests, yet they are not able to turn that knowledge into practical uses of the subject.

The lack of any focus on humanities and the inability to use math/science knowledge for anything other than passing a test are reasons enough to view the Korean education system as being less than stellar. If you really want a kid to have a well-rounded education in Korea, it means sending him/her to an international school and that equals big $$$.

carleverson · Joined: 04 Dec 2009

Chokse · Joined: 22 May 2009

"Also, if the Korean Education system was so wonderful, why are Korean parents bending over backwards to send their kids to school in the west?"

This quote kind of sums up education in Korea.

If you are deciding which country to raise your kids in, education has to be at the top of your priority list.

Also, not all schools in the US have massive drug or violence problems. This really comes down to due diligence and the choices you make. If you do your research, you can find good school districts that experience very few problems, but that usually means being in the "good" suburbs or in smaller communities. It also means that you might have to settle for a smaller house in a better (school district) neighborhood versus a bigger house in a worse neighborhood.

In Korea, if you can get a job at a foreign company that gives you good overseas benefits and sends your kids to an international school, then Korea might be an OK place to raise a family. However, on an average teacher's salary/benefits, it is not a great place to raise and educate kids.

definitely maybe · Joined: 16 Feb 2008

brento1138 · Joined: 17 Nov 2004

To the OP. I agree that moving to the US might be a better option for you and your wife, and I agree with others here that your wife better be 100% into the idea before you do that. But it takes some convincing.

Many Koreans have this myth floating around that if they moved to Canada or America, that they couldn't get a job. This is just so plain absolutely untrue. I am constantly hearing about / seeing / knowing people from other countries who have found a ton of success. I'm from Vancouver, and if you go to any large corporation, it is full of foreigners who turned into Canadians.

I remember very clearly my 4th grade elementary school teacher was from Hong Kong. I had a dentist from Scotland. My friend is married to a Korean nurse. She's going to be making at least three or four times more in Canada than she could in Korea. Sure, she needs a little bit of education, but that's doable. And the amount of money she pays to re-educate herself is going to pay itself off anyways.

I know several guys in your position (they want to go home, but the wife doesn't). But I also know a few who have gone back. Those guys all had plans and big chunks of change saved up. In fact, back in Vancouver, my next-door neighbor (a cool guy named James) actually moved from Korea to Canada with his pregnant wife. He had saved up for his house through renting it out when he was living in Korea and teaching ESL in Busan. A possibility for you would be to buy a house out in the USA (or get your parents to, with your money), get your parents to rent it out to people (helping pay off whatever mortgage you have left) so that when you move to the USA you've got a place ready to move into, and no worries about paying it off. I agree you must show her pictures of houses you could live in.

You also should explain the "Pie" theory to your wife. That the USA has a fantastic amount of resources and land (pieces of pie) to divide amongst its people (the eaters of the pie). But in Korea, there isn't much "pie" to go around, so the people are going to be hungrier. Being American makes you automatically richer than a Korean. I've always thought, a poor Canadian, is in many ways, richer than a rich Korean. And it is based on my "pie" theory.

Plus, Korea is surrounded by two giant economies: China & Japan. Yes Korea has done well economically, but can it keep competition up against China? What will it be like 20or 50 years from now? Will the world be stable in 20 years? Will alliances still exist to protect South Korea from North Korea? What if North Korea collapses and chaos ensues?

The debt problem of America pales in comparison to the problems Korea faces, in my opinion.

I think you better explain to your wife that a little more work, effort, etc, to move to the USA could provide a much better future for your daughter. I'm not saying SK is a bad place to live (it isn't) but I definitely think a child has much more to gain in North America than in South Korea, especially when considering the future.

litebear · Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Holland

madoka · Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Chokse · Joined: 22 May 2009

Newer house with zoned A/C, R-30 insulation in the walls and attic, Pella or Anderson windows, all make low electricity bills more than possible.

Sure, if you live in a 30 year old house with single pane windows, non-zoned A/C, and 30 year old insulation, you are likely to see huge energy bills.

Again, this comes down to choice. You need to do due diligence on the house you are going to purchase and not rush into anything. Patience. There are plenty of houses for sale with good insulation, zoned A/C, and energy efficient doors and windows.

I am making apples to apples comparisons as they apply to my life in Korea. I live in an overpriced apartment (all in Seoul are) that has no insulation whatsoever, thus resulting in enormous energy bills.

I'm not a fan of Korean food. Most of it I find unappealing, and the foods I do like are astronomically expensive here. At the Asian supermarkets in Dallas, most Korean food products are only marked up 10%-20% over what they cost here, and some are even the same price. Overall, our food costs will be cheaper.

Not everyone has or wants a Hyundai. I have a BMW and I'm not going to apologize for that. It will cost much less to operate and insure it in the US than it does here.

School will also be cheaper (paid by taxes) in the US.

I have several relatives with kids living in the US and all of them spend less each month than we do, if their mortgages are taken out of the equation, and since we already own a house in the US, that is an apples to apples comparison.

This doesn't even begin to include quality of life issues, which are priceless.

madoka · Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Captain Corea · Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul

Brooks · Joined: 08 Apr 2003

No. I could get a job and my wife could get health coverage. I am thinking about moving to Oregon.
Better quality of life. Plus Oregon has no state tax.

With propert taxes some states are brutal. New York is number 1 in the country, which is why my brother wants to sell his house. He lives in Delaware and it is cheaper there and the winters are not bad at all.
In upstate New York, in the winter the electric bill is about 500 bucks.

Chokse · Joined: 22 May 2009

Current OSD price for a BMW 5 series is 11% off the retail price. That's better than the drop to "dealer" price from sticker price. For Mercedes, it is currently averaging 9% and Volvo is 10%.

All of those come in under the "dealer" price according to Edmunds.

Also, these manufacturers drop the destination charge and pay all import taxes on the car. It's actually a great way to get a car and to get a nice little vacation since you can drive the car around Europe (they give you 30 days of free insurance in Europe) rather than rent a car.

So, add an average drop of 10% off the price and $2,000 worth of airline tickets + hotel and it's not a bad deal.

That being said, only fool would buy a new car today. It's much more economical to buy a one or two year old low mileage car than it is to buy new. The price will drop substantially, it will still be under warranty, and the insurance will be cheaper than a new one. Huge savings buying a slightly used car versus a new car.

Chokse · Joined: 22 May 2009

For those asking about health insurance costs, it really all depends on your job. If you work for a private company, it can be hit or miss. It depends on what plan they have and how many employees they have enrolled in it. It can be cheap and it can be horribly expensive (maybe ranging from $300 per month to $1500 per month and often does not include dental and vision).

If you are running your own business or do not get health insurance through your company, it will be expensive, no doubt. Probably close to $2000 per month for a family of 4 or 5 (including dental and vision).

If you work for the government (local, state, or national), or if you are in education (university or K-12), insurance is pretty reasonable and ranges from $100 per month to $500 per month at the extreme for a family (including dental, vision and disability). Government and education jobs also usually come with pretty good pension programs as well. While the yearly salary is not great, these jobs do come with some good benefits (listed above) and a good amount of vacation.

PatrickGHBusan · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:37 am Post subject:

PatrickGHBusan · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:43 am Post subject:

Madoka makes a GREAT point about using actual comparables. Chokse is kind of warping the data as some of his comparisons are indeed apple/oranges.

Another key point needs to be made here...say your Korean spouse is from Seoul, Busan or some other major urban centre in Korea. She or he has lived in that busy city with all it has to offer (advantages and drawbacks).

Taking your spouse to the US or Canada and settling in a tiny small town is not a smart move. She or he will have to deal with culture shock and will be completely cut off from Korean goods and some form of K community (something as simple as a Korean grocery store for foods he or she likes).

My wife is an example of this, she was born in Seoul and moved to Busan when she was 10. She is a city gal through and through.

When we decided to settle in Canada in 2008, I would not have marooned her in some tiny Ontario town! Holy crap she would have refused.

We moved in a large city where she had access to a Korean community and some Korean goods (stores, groceries). We do not go there all the time but we do go there once per week and our kids have access to a Korean community that offers Korean courses for example.

So while Chokse makes valid points, I would not have taken my city gal to a small Ontario town just to save money!