Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jizza]

I've thought about living permanently in Korea and raising children and I never considered sending my kids to a hagwon because I figured I'd do a lot of homeschooling (after all, a lot of us ARE ESL instructors).

That would save a lot of money right there. I'm not just talking about English.. but things like Latin, Chinese, literature, etc. I think with guidance kids can get a great education anywhere in the world, even more so with the recent proliferation of online resources.

I haven't actually done this though as I don't have kids. Anyone who has gone through the process (or going through) can shed some light on whether homeschooling in Korea will actually work?

[Chokse]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying anyone should bring their Korean spouse to a tiny, podunk town.

The point I was trying to make is that there are more options in the US than East Coast and West Coast where prices are highest.

I can't speak for every city and state in the US, but I have lived in both Dallas and San Diego. Both have fairly large Korean communities and both have a number of Asian supermarkets that sell Korean goods. Both cities are also fairly large and have and get many cultural events (museums, concerts, etc.) and have major league sports, good shopping, amusement parks, restaurants serving food from all over the world, etc.

NEITHER city is a bad place to live and BOTH cities have some really nice, safe suburbs (with good schools) in which to live.

This brings me to the point I've been trying to make.

If you buy a nice 3000 square foot house in a good suburb of San Diego, you are going to pay over $1 million. For that money, you will get a temperate climate and access to the ocean, though it is a very cold ocean and not a fun one to swim in without a wetsuit. On the other hand, you will get a very, very small yard, maybe the width of the house and only a few yards/meters deep.

On the other hand, if you buy a nice 3000 square foot house in a good suburb of Dallas, you will pay about $300,000. For that money, you will get fairly mild weather in the winter and hot weather in the summer, but no access to the ocean. You will, however, get a very sizable yard (front and back) with a swimming pool (about 70% of suburban Dallas homes have a swimming pool).

So, my point. Both of these places offer city life, easy access to Korea (flight with only one stop... Tokyo for Dallas and LA for San Diego), Korean communities and Korean goods, and safe suburban neighborhoods with good schools.

The difference is that in San Diego, house prices are much higher, house insurance is higher, property taxes are much higher, state income taxes are higher, and the overall cost of living is much higher, even when the average income is taken into account. In Dallas, things are much cheaper, but there is still access to a sizable Korean community.

I'm sure there are many other cities and states we could use for comparisons, but I can only give first hand knowledge of the two places I have lived. I guess for some people, any price is acceptable for basically perfect weather and ocean views.

Not for me though. My wife and I will be moving to Dallas in the near future. We already own a house there and there's even a Korean church a couple of miles away, and several Korean kids in the school district.

For my wife and me, safety, education, and "fun factor" are our priorities, as is affordability. Both of us will have to make some sacrifices and we understand this. I might not have the greatest job (though unemployment in Texas is way below the national average) and my wife might have to deal with some cultural adjustments. But, we are making these sacrifices so our kids can have a more pleasurable life and a good, well rounded education, in a safe, comfortable environment where they can play outside every day instead of sitting in an apartment playing computer games.

Most of all, we can't justify spending almost $1 million more to have a somewhat similar life on the West Coast. The weather just isn't worth that kind of money, at least to us.

[Chokse]

Homeschooling can always work so long as you feel qualified to teach what needs to be taught, and I don't think location makes any difference.

If my wife and I were to raise kids in Korea (and we did talk about it at one point), we agreed there would be no need to send them to a hagwon because we could teach them everything they could learn there.

But, we realized a major problem with this plan. While our kids might not be going to hagwon, all the other kids will. So, our kids would be home with no friends to play with or hang out with because all the other kids are at hagwon. We would basically be creating kids who would have difficulty with social skills because they would have no playmates with which to develop those skills.

It was at that moment I realized that no matter how "non-Korean" you try to make life for your kids in Korea, none of the other parents are doing this, so you end up with kids who have time to play and want to play, but have no one to play with.

So, you can teach your future kids at home and likely "classes" will be over by mid-afternoon, but what then? What are they going to do? With whom are they going to play? They're just going to sit inside reading books, playing games, or going to the playground to play with their sibling and some very young Korean kindergarten kids who don't go to hagwon.

[T-J]

You are right about the friendship and play aspect that is the flip side of making the hagwon rounds.

Our son attends classes for math, English, and a music academy where he studies piano and violin.

English is at our academy, so no cost there. My sister in law owns a math hagwon, so he attends that for free as well.

My wife is friends with the music academy owner, her two sons attend our English hagwon, and we have a little swap worked out there as well.

So we are paying nothing, we know all of the owners / teachers and our son enjoys going to all three.

[Swampfox10mm]

Thanks for all of the insight. I've owned property and cars in the US before, so I have some idea as to what I'd be getting into. I can say that I have no desire to live in California, that's for sure. That's quite far from family, and defeats the purpose of moving.

Taxes around my home area run about $333 per month on a $200,000 home. I figure we'd buy a home somewhere around $170,000 or a bit less.

As for cars, I have purchased two new cars in my life, and consider both purchases to be a financial mistake (devaluation, etc). From here on out, I'm probably going the used car for cash route. I am a fan of purchasing something 4 years or a bit older after it's taken the hit and planning for maintenance expenses at purchase or soon thereafter.

Car insurance is something I'll have to re-educate myself on. I was always with State Farm, and got really low rates because of an essentially spotless driving record. I could provide proof of insurance in Korea, my agent back home seems to think (I asked) to keep a decent rate. As for my wife, she'd be starting from scratch. I'd have to talk to the agent on that one. He's a family friend, and often bends the rules a bit to save us big money.

Taxes and whatnot... yeah, something like a 35% hit, which freaks my wife out. Sales tax in the area varies at 5 to 7 percent.

Energy costs, well, that can vary a lot, as has been discussed. I tend to be somewhat conservative in usage. I'll have to research that.

Childcare would take care of itself, as my wife would probably not work if we live near my old home.

Have no idea what an average salary is for someone who is, for example, teaching at a community college. I am ten years out of the loop on salary. I'd have to snoop around and see what that kind of job, as well as others, would get in my area.

There is also the option of doing what someone else mentioned and living here and there at different times of the year. That poses a new question: What about having to stay away from home XX number of days per year to avoid taxes? I am scratching my head trying to understand how the IRS would ever know if I filed correctly, as I always have, and didn't take a PT job while on vacation back home? Or even if I did work some -- I'd make so little money, I could probably get free healthcare thanks to Obama or whatnot, eh?

[Chokse]

TJ: Just curious about this. Many child psychologists say that playing with other kids is a very big part of a child's development, and without it kids can grow up being less creative or socially maladjusted (for lack of a better word).

How do you approach this? Do your kids have time to play with someone other than a sibling, since most other kids are in hagwon all the time? When do your kids get time to be kids, and do they have friends with enough free time to also play?

[Chokse]

Swamp:

In all likelihood you will be in a lower tax bracket than 35% if you are working as a teacher. Also remember that you can deduct many things from taxes, to lower the hurt a bit. Kids are a deductible, property is a deductible, if your wife gets a business license and runs a small business from home, all kinds of things become deductible.

Don't ever forget deductions. My cousin has a wife and 3 kids and pays almost zero in taxes each year because of all the deductions he can get (he's an accountant so he knows all about this stuff).

I would suggest talking to an accountant to see what kind of tax bracket you would potentially be in and what sorts of deductions you would qualify for.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Good to see this last post of yours swamp!

One question: earlier you said one of your wife's big worries was finding a job that pays as well in the US.

Now in your last post you say "no worries for daycare as she (your wife) will stay at home and take care of the kids".

Did she change her mind on the work issue?

I will say this from my side of the North Am border: we needed the two incomes to maintain a lifestyle that was equivalent to what we had in Korea and to maintain our saving and investment goals. On one income (mine) we would have had to make adjustments and my wife may have found it tough to stay home all day with our daughter in a place where she knows no one initially!

Another thing to note and this ties in to what Chokse was asking regarding kids socializing well. In our area, the vast majority of pre-school age kids attend daycare. This is where they get to socialize. So keeping our daughter home would have isolated her to a large degree as there are no kids home during the day in our area (we talked to neighbors). Thats something to consider.

In Korea our son as a pre-schooler attended daycare and then when a bit older hakwons. This is where he socialized as the kids at the hakwon were the same as the kids at his school and were for the most part neighbors...

Good luck anyway swamp.

[madoka]

[Feloria]

WOW!
I've read through this thread quite thoroughly, and I think I am the only woman to chime in--if I'm wrong, I stand corrected.
The past few pages have been all about taxes, possible earnings, the school systems and job possibilities in the US.
There are a couple of important points which haven't been addressed, which definitely should be.

To the OP--has your wife lived her entire life in Korea, or has she studied abroad for a year or two and experienced cultural adjustment before?

If it's the former, finding a job or getting a good deal on a house in the U.S. are the least of your worries.
You say you've been in Korea for 10 years--but she has spent her entire life there.
I don't know if this is the case with you, but bear with me.
Perhaps when you were first married, you were still enjoying Korea and everything it has to offer--maybe it still felt new and living in a different culture still felt exciting(for lack of a better word).
Well time has passed; things are getting old, boring. You have a child now to think about. You want to change your life again--you've done it before; no big deal.
The thing is-- it takes a certain type of person to WANT to move to another country and adjust well. You are that type of person, but she very well may not be.
If she HAS lived outside of Korea before, maybe chances are better that she would be willing to move.
To be honest though, it sounds like she has no intention of moving and she's just "blowing smoke"--giving you a list of things you need to do first, that she probably doesn't expect you to do.

I could be wrong, and I really hope I am. You did mention having serious arguments about this issue, so it's pretty obvious you both need to be on the same page.

I wish you(and your wife) all the best!!

[jizza]

I don't understand.. there is still funded public school in Korea. That means your kids can socialize as much as they want to. who cares if they don't make hagwon friends. School friends should be enough.

[carleverson]

[jizza]

Homeschooled kids in the US aren't all socially-maladjusted misfits. They can participate in sports leagues. They can go to camps. They can volunteer. They can be part of organizations (religious, etc).

You could make an argument that they'd be even better socially adjusted than kids who only ever interact with their peers and teachers.

[Swampfox10mm]

Sorry for the confusion Patrick. I am discussing different possibilities. She would love not working if I could prove it financially viable. She assumes she will have to, and probably will at least PT once our daughter grows up.

As I mentioned, I sometimes am berated for not making enough money so that she doesnt have to work. At other times (past) I was at fault for limiting her job potential. Havent heard that last one for a while though. Currently I am just lazy because I am on vacation for a month until my next Univ camp, followed by the regular school year. She doesnt say such things often. Only when we argue badly every few months. *Laugh*

The big hump I will have to overcome with her is savings. We can sock away $2000 easy on a bad month in Korea, even with all baby expenses. That won't happen on one income in the USA, given my career path, and would worry her. Owning our own home would help.

As to the cultural adjustments, yes that is a big unknown. She has never been social outside of work though, and doesnt go out with friends, so I wonder if she would be as stressed as the average person?

Btw, is there homeowners tax in Korea? She was shocked to hear about this tax and others back home. We havent owned here, but I assume there is a tax she just doesnt know about.

[T-J]

Yes, there is a property tax in Korea. It's about 1/24 of what we pay int the states. Put another way we pay twice what our annual Korean tax is....every month!