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edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If you're not into KPop you aren't going to care

I don't think that's the way pop music works for most people. They don't think, 'I want to get into KPop' and sit down and listen to it for half an hour. As I said before we hear it in pubs, shops restuarants etc... and find ourselves humming the catchy stuff without noticing. Or not, in the case of K Pop.

Moondoggy

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject:

Dave Chance wrote:

If a billion people truly loved K-pop as you say, it'd be top of the charts everywhere.

Seems like K-poppers can't even impress their own fans when they don't show off their behind while lip synching-

http://www.allkpop.com/2011/04/fans-disappointed-with-past-clip-of-goo-haras-live-singing

A video of Hara on Mnet�s �Director�s Cut� surfaced on a major Korean portal site, in which the idol is seen covering Kiss� �Because I�m a Girl� alongside veteran singer Yoon Jong Shin, who�s playing the guitar. In the video, she states that this is one of favorite songs. However, her cover disappointed many, as they felt that her performance was poor and didn�t match up to the quality of the original.

Even if 10 billion earthlings and trillions of aliens tuning in throughout the galaxies were writing their allegiance in blood, it'd still be bad, and it'd still wouldn't excuse the rampant expoitation.

Yikes! Allkpop is for teenage boys and girls (from USA and Europe) who adore Kpop and Korea. And of course there are some occasional haters who happen to be foreign ajossis teaching English in Korea like yourself. But that's O.K.

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject:

Moondoggy wrote:

Dave Chance wrote:

And more than 90% of the K-pop aspirants are taken advantage of for money and sex. But that's O.K.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:23 am Post subject:

Stout wrote:

Moondoggy wrote:

Dave Chance wrote:

And more than 90% of the K-pop aspirants are taken advantage of for money and sex. But that's O.K.

They could take away all of that and you'd still whine and complain.

They could write their own songs and you'd still say "it sucks".

Nothing it does could please you short of turning into your preferred genre of music. Even then there are some folks who would badmouth it simply because it was Korean.

But sorry, not everyone enjoys your genre of music. I know it upsets you that people don't like what you like, but that's life.

And sorry, but I don't think any of them are too surprised they have to sleep their way to the top.

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:20 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Stout wrote:

Moondoggy wrote:

Dave Chance wrote:

And more than 90% of the K-pop aspirants are taken advantage of for money and sex. But that's O.K.

Some more wild spasdic specualtions from the amusing one. Whip up another personal attack rather than answer to the issues. If you could manage to create a half-way decent song (not just close friends nodding in agreement) you'd realize how hard it was and deserving of respect.

I admire musicains from Japan, Indonesia, Turkey et al so it's got nothing to do with it being Korean, and everything to do with it being over-manufactured dross. Of course Japan has their clueless idols as well, but balanced with a healthy diversity of other genres.

I couldn't care less whether or not everyone likes "my genre", it bothers me more that Korean youth aren't really presented with many options, that most aren't even aware that other types of musics and sub-genres are out there.

Quote:

And sorry, but I don't think any of them are too surprised they have to sleep their way to the top.

This is where your flippancy really shows how off-base you are. As a good portion of potential idols start their training in their mid-late (some even early) teens, they aren't yet at a stage where they can make an informed judgement about what the consequences and repercussions will be. For you to pass it off like that shows that you can't comprehend how vile it is for the middle-age execs to create and enforce that type of system, which essentially takes advantage of their naivety. You don't seem to care that over 90% end up having to do things like prostitute themselves in a room salon to rich old men in order to pay off all the corporate investment that didn't come to fruition when they failed to make it.

Despite you and your ilk being apologists on the level of a dog dry humping a log, it's curious that you guys never ask the question whether Korea coud or should do better. Sure it's popular to some degree, and Hitler was mad popular in his domain, and the Spice Girls were far more popular. It's basically saying that Koreans can't think for themselves and have to take orders on what and how to sing, pose, move, gesture, and think. Always a puppet, never the real deal. K-pop is therefore a metaphor for the ills of Korean society as a whole. Other societies have their problems as well, but the topic of this thread is K-pop, and as has been pointed out, the related problems are on a larger scale here.

You guys don't seem to have had much success in sports (or have missed some basic realizations). There's little merit in your coach patting your ass if you haven't really learned to think and act on your own. And a coach who does push you to realize yourself counts for something far more than what the K-pop execs can claim to have created. And that is what this is really about. Real enduring value that shines on its own without contrived flash mobs, versus factory-produced physically/mentally altered, programmed moving, lip-synching drone nation colluding with education and the media to skate through without actually having made anything so much as paid off people to slap together songs, costumes, and dance moves/visual concepts, based on what's already come before, with sexual slavery and monetary extortion (pay or off to the room salon pronto) thrown in for good measure, as virtually the only acceptable, "cool" musical media for a nation's youth.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:59 am Post subject:

Quote:

It's basically saying that Koreans can't think for themselves and have to take orders on what and how to sing, pose, move, gesture, and think. Always a puppet, never the real deal. K-pop is therefore a metaphor for the ills of Korean society as a whole. Other societies have their problems as well, but the topic of this thread is K-pop, and as has been pointed out, the related problems are on a larger scale here.

Dude, it's music. You are reading wayyyy wayyyy too much into it.

People listen to KPop because it's catchy and it sounds good.

They also listen to American pop. They want catchy songs.

Plus there is the internet. If they don't like it, they know how to find it.

Believe it or not there are Korean people out there who listen to country and jazz and rock and death metal and so on. You just have to find a scene.

It's probably like back home where some of the death metal shows I went to had like 20 people and played in podunk towns because no one except those that were hardcore into the scene cared.

Quote:

I couldn't care less whether or not everyone likes "my genre"

Then why do you get in a huff? Why even bother posting? Clearly it DOES bother you.

I mean you've actually SERIOUSLY researched the topic. What's the deal? What brought that on? A desire to reform the system?

Quote:

As a good portion of potential idols start their training in their mid-late (some even early) teens, they aren't yet at a stage where they can make an informed judgement about what the consequences and repercussions will be.

Teenagers aren't stupid. Give them some credit, they know the game. Trust women learn that sex is not just about love fairly early on.

Quote:

Sure it's popular to some degree, and Hitler was mad popular in his domain, and the Spice Girls were far more popular.

KPop is like Hitler, nice. At least put a Laughing

in to recognize that you are being somewhat over the top.

Quote:

You guys don't seem to have had much success in sports (or have missed some basic realizations). There's little merit in your coach patting your ass if you haven't really learned to think and act on your own. And a coach who does push you to realize yourself counts for something far more than what the K-pop execs can claim to have created. And that is what this is really about.

You guys? I'm American. Do pretty well, thank you.

But if you're talking about Koreans, I think their showings in archery, shooting, speed skating, figure skating, swimming, soccer, baseball, taekwondo, judo, weightlifting, and golf speak for themselves. Look at their success record in those sports, its fine.

Quote:

And that is what this is really about. Real enduring value that shines on its own without contrived flash mobs, versus factory-produced physically/mentally altered, programmed moving, lip-synching drone nation colluding with education and the media to skate through without actually having made anything so much as paid off people to slap together songs, costumes, and dance moves/visual concepts, based on what's already come before, with sexual slavery and monetary extortion (pay or off to the room salon pronto) thrown in for good measure, as virtually the only acceptable, "cool" musical media for a nation's youth.

Dude, you read way too much into pop music.

People like how it sounds. It's that simple. Sorry you don't. That's fine.

Listening to pop doesn't make you a zombie. Not listening to pop doesn't make you a free thinker.

If you really believe that then you are a peawit sir.

Anyone who believes that music is reflective of a persons morality, intellect, maturity, character, intelligence, open-mindedness, etc. etc. in a negative way is a flat out idiot.

Usually people who think that are types who are passive-aggressively lashing out at something.

So sir, do you watch Action movies? Hollywood blockbusters?

And what would you say about Korean Film? It stands in high esteem for its open-mindedness and creativity. It's highlights include the many independent films that have been promoted. It regularly challenges cultural norms.

Every stone you hurl at KPop, Korean Film is the opposite of.

So it can't be cultural, rather it is industrial.

And yes pop music industries tend to be shady. Gosh I had no idea.

Maybe Koreans feel that music, especially pop music is more about a catchy song that everyone can enjoy and that film, or books, or classical music are the proper mediums for more complex and individualistic expression.

Quote:

I admire musicains from Japan, Indonesia, Turkey et al so it's got nothing to do with it being Korean,

Quote:

K-pop is therefore a metaphor for the ills of Korean society as a whole

Clearly it does.

2i2dk1ny2i3

Joined: 26 Jun 2011

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject:

Stout wrote:

dude you gotta learn to form your thoughts better...

i'll only touch on one of many fallacies in your argument namely the highlighted in Bold portion. A coach isn't there to teach you to "think" for yourself. Most sports, are team based, and you MUST learn to play as a team or fail miserably by yourself no matter how good you are i.e. LeBron James comes to mind. And K-Pop execs. do one thing, help those reach their dream or at least try to and develop their talent

This is the same thing in Sports, not many ever play on the Professional level, its extremely difficult to make it Pro in any sport and would you knock those who tried to reach their dream since it seems like from your previous post, you had some success in sports yourself

To me, its better to have tried and fail even fail miserably than to have never tried. You get one shot at life and at least those who tried to become Singers and Pro Athletes, had a level of dedication and determination that outsiders standing on the sidelines can criticize w/out actually understanding or factual bases of argumentation

Oh and please don't try and make it seem like everyone who doesn't make it are destined for a life of working in Bars and unless you can actually provide PROOF on your 90% Rape statistics, your basically just spouting off random estimates

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Anyone who believes that music is reflective of a persons morality, intellect, maturity, character, intelligence, open-mindedness, etc. etc. in a negative way is a flat out idiot.

I can pretty much assure you that Rick James wasn't a fan of Handel or Schubert.

Quote:

So sir, do you watch Action movies? Hollywood blockbusters?

And what would you say about Korean Film? It stands in high esteem for its open-mindedness and creativity. It's highlights include the many independent films that have been promoted. It regularly challenges cultural norms.

Every stone you hurl at KPop, Korean Film is the opposite of.

It's pretty obvious that you're grasping at straws when you have to bring cinema into a discussion about pop music. Don't stop there, dial up physics and automative engines. No one said there weren't any redeeming aspects of Korean artistic endeavor. REFER TO THE TITLE OF THE THREAD.

Quote:

Teenagers aren't stupid. Give them some credit, they know the game. Trust women learn that sex is not just about love fairly early on.

You've blown it again. A teenager may think she's going to make out well by sleeping with executives and official big wigs, but she has no idea how it will impact her character/psyche down the road, especially when she actually doesn't become famous and finds herself forced into prostitution. You seem to find it okay that the majority of the industry is set up this way, so that a young girl who aspires to become a popular singer gets funneled into this type of situation. Other countries don't have the 10-13 year slave contracts that Korea does.

The skewed attitudes reflected in the K-pop young teen meat market bling bling approach has a tremendous influence on K-youth and society as a whole. It isn't simply about a catchy tune, but indicative of a whole system of monkey-see monkey-do spec mania for a dollar. It was pioneered in Japan (as was Korea's soccer/baseball league, car/electronics industry, architecture, education system, new restaurants,...), but as I said they've cultivated a whole lot more diversity . It's obvious you haven't really lived anywhere besides the states and the country enclave where you're holed up in now, so you've got an alibi for your ignorance, but you really ought to hold your tongue before you see more of the world and can get your brain around how extreme and one-sided Korea's music industry is, and how it plays a significant role in the dehumanizing currents shaping Korea.

Quote:

But if you're talking about Koreans, I think their showings in archery, shooting, speed skating, figure skating, swimming, soccer, baseball, taekwondo, judo, weightlifting, and golf speak for themselves. Look at their success record in those sports, its fine.

This indicates you don't really have a very high level of reading comprehension in general. It was pretty obvious that I was talking about lessons that people learn from participating in sports. You don't understand the basic issues, and your overall experience of life comes off as quite limited. This is the last time that I'll bother responding to you, I'll leave you to bop around to the latest hit parade in the noraebang.

Stout

Joined: 28 May 2011

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject:

2i2dk1ny2i3 wrote:

Stout wrote:

You're on the same level as Steelhead. Within the context of the two teams going at each other, Lebron failed because he couldn't figure out the Mavs defense. Nowitski outwitted the Heat in crunch time, so he was able to score clutch baskets in one-on-one/one-on-two/three situations and get the prize.

The fact that you view K-pop execs as single-mindedly trying to help Korean youth out of their desire to help them reach their dream (it could more accurately be described as the carrot which allows them to get the aspiring idols to do their bidding) is laughable, and shows that you really don't have much life experience either. So it's pointless for me to go on talking with you as well. Go ahead and join Steel in the noraebang, and knock yourself out.

2i2dk1ny2i3

Joined: 26 Jun 2011

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject:

Stout wrote:

same level?...if you mean rational and actually thinks before speaking then, yeah i would say we're similar

Nowitzki "outwitted" the Heat?...i never knew Basketball was more thinking than pure skill. Obviously you also lack knowledge in Basketball as well. The Heat were a much better team on Paper...they had three Superstars James, Wade, & Bosh. The Mavs arguable had one Superstar but which TEAM played better?

I never said execs are single-minded and to reach a level of executive, most aren't so close-minded. Why would you assume i would think executives are single minded? Sounds again like your own personal opinion without any relevant facts. Again you present some sort of wild theory or argument without any sort of support

Life experience? lol, i bet i've probably lived in more cities, been through more things, etc. etc. than you but i care not to try and rationalize anything to you as you'll probably try and dumb it down

if i ever met Steel, i would love to go to No-Rae-Bang, its a blast Wink

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:09 am Post subject:

Funny Stout, for all your life experience and 'thinking for yourself' you and I are in the exact same boat, rowing the exact same oar.

Relax, it's pop music. Why pop music bothers you this degree is beyond me, but it can't be healthy.

I mean jeez, normally someone that gets this upset at an industry goes after one like tobacco, or weapons manufacturing, or animal slaughter, or big pharma.

But I guess your mighty demon is KPop. Good luck.

I mean, you're basically fighting a sound. KPop could be the cleanest industry with them all writing their own songs and everything, but you would still hate it because of how it sounds.

That to me seems like an awfully silly battle to fight. It's like being upset with people who wear the color purple or eat steak.

Hopefully KPop can clean up its industry so that there is no corruption and sex and they all write their own songs so that their cute dance numbers still bother you, only this time you don't have a reason to hate it besides how it sounds. Then I can again listen to your wild theory on how someone who enjoys that kind of music is an intellectual caveman and worse than Hitler.

Quote:

Nothing wrong with introducing a very relevant parallel issue.

Action-blockbusters are the KPop of film. I mean, they are corrupt, promote terrible values, and are intellectually for dunces.

Now what I'm trying to say is that before you hate someone for liking KPop, make sure you aren't in line to see Transformers 3.

marsavalanche

Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:40 am Post subject:

it's sad that there are foreigners listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQEabAesufg&feature=fvwrel funny thing is, I could have told you which people would be hyping this garbage up before I clicked on this thread. now line up so I can punch you in the nose. Yuck.

2i2dk1ny2i3

Joined: 26 Jun 2011

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject:

marsavalanche wrote:

it's sad that there are foreigners listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQEabAesufg&feature=fvwrel

thanks for the link

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject:

marsavalanche wrote:

it's sad that there are foreigners listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQEabAesufg&feature=fvwrel

funny thing is, I could have told you which people would be hyping this garbage up before I clicked on this thread. now line up so I can punch you in the nose.

Yuck.

You sound like a very angry, judgmental person.

Again, why people's music tastes bother some people so much is beyond me.

I think that whatever is in our darker nature that before manifested itself in racism or sexism has instead been transfered to these things where people get all bent out of shape over people's music choices or taste in movies or fashion.

That being said, English versions of KPop songs are commonly atrocious.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:11 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

...

You sound like a very angry, judgmental person.

Again, why people's music tastes bother some people so much is beyond me.

That being said, English versions of KPop songs are commonly atrocious.

Hey! Why you gotta be so judgmental? Don't bag on my musical tastes!
Your bias is akin to racism. I'm deeply offended. It's so Baaaad Baaaaaad but its so Goooood Gooooood.

I know it's a mix of ripped off cliche catch phrases from 80's/90's hip hop over a Britney Spears B-side knock off beat, dressed in a remix of Missy Eliot costumes, but gosh darn it, it floats my boat and it's the newest cultural wave that the world need be in awe of so make way! Hater...^^

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