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Norway Attacked
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Kimbop



Joined: 31 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Violence and killing is wrong.

Having said that, Europe (Norway included) is indeed being destroyed from the inside-out, and will cease to exist if its current demographic trend continues. Norwegians are more concerned with economic welfare and a utopian (but impossible) political correctness than they are with their own culture and future.

The problem: how to pay for free healthcare, free government jobs for those who don't feel like working, free pension for all seniors, etc.

The solution: import millions of third-world immigrants, and hope for the best!

If you talk about these facts:

- Mohammed most popular baby name in Oslo and UK
- All 2010 rapes in Norway committed by non-Norwegians
- 2009 Norway Muslim riots
- immigrant unemployment rate in Norway triples native population
- At a birth rate of 1.98, Native Norwegians are shrinking and dying, while immigrant birth rates remain much higher

then you are racist.

They pay for this lavish welfare state with oil reserves (that won't last forever) and with the plan that muslim immigrants will work menial jobs and pay taxes. At the same time, Norwegians are so politically correct, they do not encourage integration, since Islam is a religion of peace and muslim culture is not barbaric. (sarc)

But this plan is not coming to fruition. Muslims in Europe are not integrating and have discovered that they can live comfortably on the dole without working.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If the counsellors on the island were armed, the killer would have been brought down within two minutes, not 90. A new Norwegian law should provide a handgun for each and every Norwegian citizen to protect from radical killers.

I repeat:

1) violence and killing is wrong.
2) the killer's shooting spree is a non-sequitor and evil.
3) Muslim is not a race.
4) Europe is dying & shrinking, and difficult political decisions will soon have to be made.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If people are interested in seeing Anders Behring Breivik's YouTube video, it's linked here. It's only 12 minutes and it's in English.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/07/23/277408/denmark-terrorist-obama/
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to Anders Behring Breivik's Internet comments:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/07/anders-behring-breiviks-online-comments

Here is one:
Breivik, in one post, argues that a "moderate" Muslim is like a "moderate" Nazi:

And then we have the relationship between conservative Muslims and so-called "moderate Muslims". There is moderate Nazis, too, that does not support fumigation of rooms and Jews. But they're still Nazis and will only sit and watch as the conservatives Nazis strike (if it ever happens). If we accept the moderate Nazis as long as they distance themselves from the fumigation of rooms and Jews?....For me it is very hypocritical to treat Muslims, Nazis and Marxists differ. They are all supporters of hate-ideologies. Not all Muslims, Nazis and Marxists are conservative, most are moderate. But does it matter? A moderate Nazi might, after having experienced fraud, choose to be conservative. A moderate Muslim can, after being refused to enter a club, be conservative, etc.

(He seems to be using 'Nazi' and 'conservative' in an idiosyncratic way.)
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted

Last edited by Mr. BlackCat on Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, the whole thing is really disgusting.

People trying to make political points. Bad idea. People trying to make a point of calling out people making political points while making your own political point, really bad idea.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Anyway, the whole thing is really disgusting.

People trying to make political points. Bad idea. People trying to make a point of calling out people making political points while making your own political point, really bad idea.


You're right. While I don't think I was making political point (although I guess an a-political position is still political), I decided to delete my comments so as to not make this about that. Let's just keep this focused on the victims.
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Panda



Joined: 25 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many comments seem to be reasoning his killing, and looking for the profound political roots of this tragedy.

But wouldn't this simply be an individual action of someone who is mentally ill and has been ignored by others and then tried to get more attention?

He was described as a loser and a loner who had no girlfriend at age 32. He posted various photos to show off his "charm" and one of his goals in 2011 is to get a girlfriend. His 1500 page declaration is another proof he wanted to look smart and get recognized, however it doesn't make any good sense. We can't really interpret that paper using normal people's logic becasue he is illogic.

He reminds me of the Arizona gunman, and years ago, the Korean gunman in Virginia Tech. All of them posted something on internet before their killing.



On the other hand, he had been preparing this for years, and he posted things on internet but no one really took seriously.

With strict internet censorship ( e.g in China. for the first time I think not internet censorship is that bad) , this guy would have long been under surveillance.


Last edited by Panda on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:58 am; edited 4 times in total
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panda wrote:
Many comments seem to be reasoning his killing, and looking for the profound politocal roots of this tragedy.

But wouldn't this simply be an individual action of someone who is mentally ill and has been ignored by others and then tried to get more attention?

He was described as a loser and a loner who had no girlfriend at age 32. He post various photos to show off his "charm". His 1500 page declaration is another proof he wanted to look smart and get recognized, however it doesn't make any good sense. We can't really interpret using normal people's logic.


Hey, I was single for most of the time I was 32. Does that make me a loser?? (kidding)


Quote:
With strict internet censorship ( e.g in China. for the first time I think not internet censorship is that bad) , this guy would have long been under surveillance.


Well without censorship, we get a better picture of who he is and it is easier to track similar people. With censorship, if the government had censored his work, it might have inspired similar people to keep their ideas quiet and only become visable when launching such an awful attack.

For instance I have a hunch that the FBI and other domestic agencies became much better at tracking militias in the US since the OKC bombing and there hasn't been any similar attacks since then (knock on wood). No censorship required! Also, I just realized that after the OKC bombing, there weren't such draconian measures taken as there were after 9-11. Kinda interesting.
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Panda



Joined: 25 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:

Well without censorship, we get a better picture of who he is and it is easier to track similar people. With censorship, if the government had censored his work, it might have inspired similar people to keep their ideas quiet and only become visable when launching such an awful attack.

For instance I have a hunch that the FBI and other domestic agencies became much better at tracking militias in the US since the OKC bombing and there hasn't been any similar attacks since then (knock on wood). No censorship required! Also, I just realized that after the OKC bombing, there weren't such draconian measures taken as there were after 9-11. Kinda interesting.


well, the internet censorship I talked about would be more like a tracking system ( not only prohibiting people from posting on internet) , I am sure the FBI has been doing lots of censorship, they keep an eye on those suspects.

Nothing wrong with being single at age 32 as long as it's your choice, but he seems to suffer from having no girls like him.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panda wrote:

well, the internet censorship I talked about would be more like a tracking system ( not only prohibiting people from posting on internet) , I am sure the FBI has been doing lots of censorship, they keep an eye on those suspects.


Tracking is very different from censorship. I mean google tracks everything you do on its sites (including gmail) as do other internet sites. And if you have any examples of the FBI actually censoring anything, I'd love to see it.
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StudentInKorea



Joined: 29 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote a comment on this over at the Mormots Hole, so I will copy some of that and add some more too.
Zackback wrote:
Breivik was also arrested for the bombing of Oslo's government district that killed seven people hours earlier. Norway's toughest sentence is 21 years in jail.

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-suspect-deems-killings-atrocious-needed-013354792.html

Only 21 years maximum for this carnage?

That ain't right.

First a clarification on the maximum jail sentence in Norway. The maximum sentence is called �21 years plus custody (forvaring)�. If you get this sentence you first serve your regular sentence and then they decide if you are still a threat for society or not. If you are no longer a threat, you will be set free, if you are still a threat you can be sentenced to up to 5 more years and then a new evaluation. So while a 21 year sentence might only be 14 years because of good behaviour, �21 years plus custody� may also be infinitely long if you are still deemed a threat. It is very uncommon for longer sentences, but this kind of shooting has never happened before in Norway and would be a natural case to extend the sentence. The shooter said in his manifest that he expected to be in jail for life, so he doesn�t have any intention to change his behaviour.

Quote:

Depends if you think gun ownership is a civil right in Norway.

While it seems like Norway is a country without many guns (even police are very seldom allowed to carry a weapon), there are actually a lot of privately owned guns. Very few own a gun to protect themselves or their family, but there is a strong hunting culture, especially on the country side. More realistically than starting to arm civilians, the police could start carrying guns. A policeman was shot and killed, but he had no way to defend himself. However, I believe most Norwegians are proud of the general lack of weapon use and would oppose more people carrying guns. Even though Europe seems very similar to the US, there is a big cultural difference when it comes to guns

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Most of the stories right now seem to be running with the right-wing Christian fundamentalist description.


Without any further information to back up why they are describing him as such.

His 1500 page manifest discribes him as a "members of the Knight's Templars who should defend Christian Europe". It is obvious that his view of the religion is very different from mainstream Norwegian Christians.


The media is doing pretty much exactly what he wanted them to do. They are analysing his writings and publishing his ideology widely. This might very well inspire others to follow his steps. On the other hand I am pretty sure it will have the opposite effect of what he wished for when it comes to changing politics. The far right wing has been gaining popularity throughout Europe lately, and a lot of people agree that multicultural societies have many problems. This shooting will however only make it harder to make any arguments against multiculturalism without being associated with a mass murderer.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StudentInKorea wrote:
A policeman was shot and killed, but he had no way to defend himself.

Wow, this is nuts... All the people back home hollering for guns to be banned should take a moment to think about this. If a disarmed police officer can get shot and killed in such a case, then why would it be any different for the average public? Apparently the shooter just took his time leisurely walking up to the victims (many of whom were just sitting there curled up on the ground waiting) over the course of a whole hour, and picking them off one by one, like fish in a barrel... Absolutely horrible and disgusting. If any one of them had been armed (hell, even a police officer in this case Rolling Eyes) someone could have just come up from behind and shot the bastard in the back of the head. Many lives could have been saved.


Last edited by visitorq on Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How very American of you.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
How very American of you.

As opposed to what? Getting into the fetal position to wait for what's coming?
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Kimbop



Joined: 31 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:

Wow, this is nuts... All the people back home hollering for guns to be banned should take a moment to think about this. If a disarmed police officer can get shot and killed in such a case, then why would it be any different for the average public? Apparently the shooter just took his time leisurely walking up to the victims (many of whom were just sitting there curled up on the ground waiting) over the course of a whole hour, and picking them off one by one, like fish in a barrel... Absolutely horrible and disgusting. If any one of them had been armed (hell, even a police officer in this case Rolling Eyes) someone could have just come up from behind and shot the bastard in the back of the head. Many lives could have been saved.


100% agreed. Who goes into the bush/wilderness without at least a .22 in their gunny sack?
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