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alphalfa
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: English not first language - yet, teaching |
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If your first language is not English, are you considered a 'native speaker'? Is this not a standard basic requirement to teaching English here in Korea?
[of course, you also need to have a 4yr degree, etc...]
I raise the issue because it has come to m attention that there are two people from South Africa who currently work at a training center on Yongjeong Island- the Incheon Int'l airport is on the same island- whose first language is NOT English. Their first language is Afrikans They have participated in student camps recently and it also appears they are now involved in conducting English classes for public school teacher trainees.
* an intensive training program to determine future pay grade for the
teacher trainees
How could this be? Let's hear from some of you on this.
One possible take on this situation as suggested to me by an IT is that Incheon Metropolitan Office of Education[IMOE] gets to save money hiring those from South Africa in that IMOE saves on not having to pay their matching pension contributions for people from South Africa - like say, for those from Canada. It costs IMOE less to have South Africans under contract teaching English than say people from Canada.
Is this the 'new way'?
btw there are three people currently at the training center in Incheon from South Africa. They have had South Africans on staff before.
alphalfa |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| South Africans are educated fully in English......so although some of them have the Afrikaans accent, an accent being something all us native speakers have too, they qualify for teaching here in Korea. |
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sulperman
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: English not first language - yet, teaching |
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| alphalfa wrote: |
One possible take on this situation as suggested to me by an IT is that Incheon Metropolitan Office of Education[IMOE] gets to save money hiring those from South Africa in that IMOE saves on not having to pay their matching pension contributions for people from South Africa - like say, for those from Canada. It costs IMOE less to have South Africans under contract teaching English than say people from Canada.
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No matter where the person is from, the office of education still pays into the pension. Even if you were right, do you really think the IMOE plans it's entire teacher hiring strategy on saving one mil a year per head?
The new way? Did SA just recently get added to the acceptable countries list? No. What exactly is new about hiring South Africans?
If I were these South Africans you speak of, I would be racking my brain trying to remember what clueless old-timer douchebag I spoke to recently about this to so I could give him a piece of my mind. |
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peter07
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Gwangmyeong
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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What I've noticed is that South Africans teaching in Korea try to get rid of their accent and such. I remember that one hakwon chain, Kang's, hired SAs because of lower salaries.
On that note, I have a friend who was born in Iran but naturalized as a Korean citizen. He's only lived in Iran and Korea and runs a small hakwon for beginner to mid-level English, but mostly beginner. He's had the business for several years now and is honest about what he can do with students and what he cannot do. |
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lalartu
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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there is nothing wrong with not being "native" native
read the contract carefully
it states "native" or "native like" english ability and graduated from a country where English is the primary language.
also your post sounds a little too elitist. can't believe someone would complain about another co worker just because their accent sound different from yours.
our school has 4 different accent and none of them is "the right one" |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| South Africans are educated fully in English......so although some of them have the Afrikaans accent, an accent being something all us native speakers have too, they qualify for teaching here in Korea. |
that's the funniest thing i've ever read.
while this is only anecdotal, i have yet to come across a SA who has decent ability befitting an english instructor. they have ALL had truly horrendous grammar, both with writing and speaking. for some reason they all get positions at publich schools. i guess i know now why korea wants to start cutting back on "native" ESL teachers in public schools.
that said, i know of a few kiwis that use english as their second language, yet they don't have such massive difficulties with it as the SAs do.
if i were korea, i'd be hiring people who use english exclusively, to the point where they aren't bilingual. or at least just don't hire SAs. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| South Africans are educated fully in English......so although some of them have the Afrikaans accent, an accent being something all us native speakers have too, they qualify for teaching here in Korea. |
that's the funniest thing i've ever read.
while this is only anecdotal, i have yet to come across a SA who has decent ability befitting an english instructor. they have ALL had truly horrendous grammar, both with writing and speaking. for some reason they all get positions at publich schools. i guess i know now why korea wants to start cutting back on "native" ESL teachers in public schools.
that said, i know of a few kiwis that use english as their second language, yet they don't have such massive difficulties with it as the SAs do.
if i were korea, i'd be hiring people who use english exclusively, to the point where they aren't bilingual. or at least just don't hire SAs. |
I hear SAs are hired because they are cheaper and don't complain as much as North Americans, Brits or Aussies. I also would not hire an SA to teach at my hakwon if I had one. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| i guess korea gets what it pays for. |
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definitely maybe
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| South Africans are educated fully in English......so although some of them have the Afrikaans accent, an accent being something all us native speakers have too, they qualify for teaching here in Korea. |
that's the funniest thing i've ever read.
while this is only anecdotal, i have yet to come across a SA who has decent ability befitting an english instructor. they have ALL had truly horrendous grammar, both with writing and speaking. for some reason they all get positions at publich schools. i guess i know now why korea wants to start cutting back on "native" ESL teachers in public schools.
that said, i know of a few kiwis that use english as their second language, yet they don't have such massive difficulties with it as the SAs do.
if i were korea, i'd be hiring people who use english exclusively, to the point where they aren't bilingual. or at least just don't hire SAs. |
Nice sweeping generalization. I've met and worked with some incredibly articulate South Africans, as well as some barely coherent Americans, Aussies, Brits, and Canadians. The fact of the matter is that South Africans suffer from a stigma in Korea that often results in less than desirable hiring practices regardless of qualifications.
I don't know why, but there seems to be a large South African population in Gangneung. A number of them that I met seemed to be just fine as well. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm South African and speak English 'exclusively', well, to the point where I wouldn't call myself bilingual when it comes to speaking English and Afrikaans. I grew up speaking English at home and at school, and even though we had to learn Afrikaans at school I never spoke it outside of school.
That said, there are a large number of Afrikaners that botch up the English language and should not be teaching it to anyone save themselves but considering how much they loathe white English-speakers in South Africa I doubt that they'd even bother with trying to improve their horrendous English.
That's right folks, the biggest rift during the apartheid days was not so much between the blacks and the whites (I mean, we were separated and hardly saw each other) but rather between the white speakers of English and the Afrikaners.
I wouldn't go so far as to say stuff like 'I would never hire a South African' though, what next, saying garbage like 'I would never hire a black person or a Korean'? The outright discrimination displayed on these forums is incredibly shocking! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: English not first language - yet, teaching |
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| sulperman wrote: |
| alphalfa wrote: |
One possible take on this situation as suggested to me by an IT is that Incheon Metropolitan Office of Education[IMOE] gets to save money hiring those from South Africa in that IMOE saves on not having to pay their matching pension contributions for people from South Africa - like say, for those from Canada. It costs IMOE less to have South Africans under contract teaching English than say people from Canada.
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No matter where the person is from, the office of education still pays into the pension. |
No. South Africans are not and have never been eligible for pension as they do not have an agreement with Korea. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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It might surprise the OP that there are many qualified Korean native speakers teaching English here! O my, how shocking!
Nothing personal - just making a point. I think the issue could have been introduced or framed differently, that's all.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| definitely maybe wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| South Africans are educated fully in English......so although some of them have the Afrikaans accent, an accent being something all us native speakers have too, they qualify for teaching here in Korea. |
that's the funniest thing i've ever read.
while this is only anecdotal, i have yet to come across a SA who has decent ability befitting an english instructor. they have ALL had truly horrendous grammar, both with writing and speaking. for some reason they all get positions at publich schools. i guess i know now why korea wants to start cutting back on "native" ESL teachers in public schools.
that said, i know of a few kiwis that use english as their second language, yet they don't have such massive difficulties with it as the SAs do.
if i were korea, i'd be hiring people who use english exclusively, to the point where they aren't bilingual. or at least just don't hire SAs. |
Nice sweeping generalization. I've met and worked with some incredibly articulate South Africans, as well as some barely coherent Americans, Aussies, Brits, and Canadians. The fact of the matter is that South Africans suffer from a stigma in Korea that often results in less than desirable hiring practices regardless of qualifications.
I don't know why, but there seems to be a large South African population in Gangneung. A number of them that I met seemed to be just fine as well. |
it's because their english isn't as good as someone from an exclusively english-speaking nation.
there, done. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
It might surprise the OP that there are many qualified Korean native speakers teaching English here! O my, how shocking!
Nothing personal - just making a point. I think the issue could have been introduced or framed differently, that's all.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
They may be qualified, but that doesn't mean they're good. I've worked with and taught many Koreans native speakers who teach English and they weren't very goog at all.
I really hope I didn't make any spelling and grammar mistakes on this post  |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
It might surprise the OP that there are many qualified Korean native speakers teaching English here! O my, how shocking!
Nothing personal - just making a point. I think the issue could have been introduced or framed differently, that's all.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
They may be qualified, but that doesn't mean they're good. I've worked with and taught many Koreans native speakers who teach English and they weren't very goog at all.
I really hope I didn't make any spelling and grammar mistakes on this post |
exactly. providing the english instructor is actually TRAINED, you'll never have a better teacher than a native speaker. |
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