Korean Job Discussion Forums

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[jvalmer]

With all that running I bet you get into shape pretty fast...

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[cisco kid]

Hey fermy, I remember when you got drafted, seems like it was longer than two years ago. And then I remember you checked in w/us about a year or so ago maybe? In any case, I knew about the 'hazing' mentality from people close to me that had been in, but no one was able to articulate it as well as you (of course).

Having been through hazing of many sorts (military and civilian), I can say it really does suck, and perpetuates itself. Anyway, you'll be out soon - what are your plans? Good luck man, have some fun in your new freedom.

[shifty]

South Africans in the days of apartheid also endured conscription.

I recognize the life immediately from the OP; very similar, if not identical.

A lot of guys got quite nervous just before intake, and asked questions to see if they would cope. The answer was 'Think of your worst nightmare and then triple that'. This appeared a tease, but in fact quite true. It was far worse than any possible anticipation.

The training is to toughen you mentally and that's why it's so hard.

Some guys really weren't cut out for it and there were some suicides. Usually the suicides would coincide with first few visits to the shooting range and an unspent round withheld.

In the first few weeks many AWOLS as well. These often missed crucial segments of their training and never quite recovered, ongoing misery.

A lot depends on what unit you're in. In my time the admin and technical people would just have an arduous basics and then freewheeling. Air force and navy also was a cruise. Sounds like the OP is admin with a bit of wake up run here and there.

But the majority; the armor, infantry, engineers, artillery, signals etc have it uniformly tough.

What I liked about the army was that we were treated like men, that is, it wasn't like school where corporal punshment was allowed on a pettifogging basis. It was hard, but in a manly way, leaders not worth their salt quickly found out.

All the conscripts that I knew were ultimately glad that they had to go. It makes a man of you.

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[shifty]

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[shifty]

[shifty]

I hope I'm not boring you guys with all my reminiscences. If I am, please read no further.

[shifty]

Another in what is becoming a series of posts from me on the topic. As I have said, noone is obliged to read, purely voluntary.

Following on my last post, I could have mentioned that it is difficult to change tack driving an armored car down a hill, since sometimes a boulder gets jammed into one of the front wheels and the steering feels locked.

When I jumped out at the bottom my whole body was trembling and my legs felt like rotten bananas.

The instructors we had were Permanent Force or career soldiers, called as a whole, PF's. They mostly had rank of corporal, which in the South African army had a lot of clout, perhaps b/c of a flatter hierarchy than other armies. These instructors were highly motivated and incorruptible, such was the nationalist leaning in the country, as well as looming emergency vis a vis our politics.

I would expect there are some parallels with South Korean forces.

Our 2nd lieutenants were mostly conscripts. They had been told to listen and learn from the PF NCO's and tacitly told to keep a wide berth from any friction. For their part, the PF corporals held them in calculated disdain. They had of course to salute them, but pulled all sorts of ploys to make their lack of respect palpable.

Otherwise these PF NCO's had a brotherhood with the PF officers and were supported by them. Our conscript officers mainly just kept a watching brief.

Incidentally, there was a time that certified teachers were axiomatically held as officer material, but that was quietly downscaled and seen in a more common sense light.

At the shooting range the firing contingent had their counterparts in the target pit. The target could be pulleyed up and down from the pit into the air. The guys manning the pit had long 15 foot rods with a metal pointer at the tip. One side was red which would denote bullseye. The opposite side black was to show in the circle outside the bullseye ring. If the pointer was swung black from side to side, it meant complete miss and outside anything that counted.

If it was your turn to shoot, you could scan from left to right and check where the instuctors were. Usually they'd be busy with individuals constantly shooting miss and had a boot in the small of their backs to encourage focus.

At this moment of no supervision you took a shot, then waited for the pointer. As the pointer showed, shoot immediately and hit the pointer. The bullet hitting the metal pointer would cause the guy in the pit to get a nice fright with the sudden unpleasant vibration going through the rod.

There'd be a long no show, with him unsure if you had simply made an error or had done it on purpose. Then finally, up it would come again and you'd give it the treatment. Then there'd be a long pissed off no show.

Once I had my own mate in the pit. So he gives me full score like 40 out of 40 for each distance. When the marks came over the radio, all heads turned to me as if to assess if I really looked an eagle eye sniper. I could feel myself blush. If he could have just used his brains and given me a 36 or 37. Still good for a sharp shooter badge and allay interest in sending me to sniper school. Very embarrassing!!

We also fired Uzi sub machine guns. They were from Israel (SA and them were buddies in crime at the stage). The magazine held 30 rounds and if you didn't run up to the target and follow the dust path you could fire all 30 rounds miss. In other words you had to sacrifice some to get some.

At long range with rifles, sometimes the guy next to you would misalign and put all his shots through your target causing a nice fat score. Although a radio message from the pit would alert the instructors and the miscreant would feel a boot in his back .

We had also to do live firing in the bush. You'd run with the instructor directly behind you and you'd have to double tap the targets that had been secreted behind the bushes, causing you to gyrate as you belatedly spotted them. I remember how nervous the instructors were b/c they imagined that someone would take revenge on them and swing right around and shoot them in a deniable accident.

In the eighties the USSR had its back to the wall as America achieved ascendancy. The Russians needed a big fillip and was after Africa, using its surrogates the Cubans. If they had succeeded in taking Africa with all its minerals plus the prestige of having a whole continent gone communist the wall would only have fallen in much later years.

So the West has quite a debt to the South African Defence Force and all its doings.

[Paddycakes]

Question for the OP:

What do they do with the guys who are just totally and absolutely unable to hack even basic training?

Maybe I'm thinking of westerners, but there are a lot of guys out there who could not hack 8 weeks of what you just described... they just couldn't do it... their personalities are so non-average or mainstream conventional that they'd never fit in the system no matter how hard you tried.


What happens to these guys? Do they just skip basic and do something else?

[nukeday]

damn, shifty. thread hijack!

I'd be what Paddycakes described, unable to adjust to anal retentive routines. Plus I'd probably collapse and die during PT.

I'm not obese, either. Just amazingly nonathletic.

[shifty]

Yeah, sorry bout the hijack.

Well, the powers that be weren't entirely merciless. Sometimes a guy would just disappear. He wasn't rollcalled anymore, so not AWOL. I think they'd quietly dispatched him to somewhere as a clerk.

However, they'd be quite judicious about that, else it would be catchy.

For example, during Battle PT, if a guy had an ankle sprain or similar, he would be forced to carry on, regardless. If he were allowed to fall out, it's just amazing how many others would get opportunistic.

If the instructors were unsure in a given situation, they'd insist that the soldier sick report, to cover their backs.

We knew, however, to not do any bogus sick reporting. On the return from the hospital the news would come through and the fraud's life would be worth tuppence. But even if you'd had incurred something genuine, you'd be a marked man on your return.

Another safeguard was the rigorous medical done on the first one or two days. One would see a little group outside the main gate awaiting transport, going home. Lucky sods!

One schoolfriend of mine wasn't even initially called up, owing to curvature of the spine. I couldn't see anything wrong with him, ridiculous.