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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| House passes the vote 269-161. It goes to the Senate. Gabbie Giffords graced the floor at the end of the vote. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| House passes the vote 269-161. |
That was with 174 Y and 66 N (GOP) and 95 Y and 95 N (Dems).
From TPM:
Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) doesn't want Democrats to think they can leave him hanging on the the floor Monday night when the House votes on legislation to raise the debt limit, and slash deficits by at least $2 trillion.
But with Democratic leaders declining to whip for the bill, and wide swaths of their party vowing to oppose it, he's got to be wondering whether they'll come through.
Here's what he told reporters at a Capitol press conference Monday.
"I would remind all of you that this is not just an agreement between the President and myself," Boehner said. "This is an agreement between the bipartisan leaders of the Congress and the President of the United States. And all the leaders have a responsibility, because they've all signed off on the agreement, to bring sufficient votes to make sure that it passes."
He was referring specifically to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), who earlier in the day left Boehner with the onus for getting the bill past 216 votes.
"You'll have to ask the Speaker," she said. "He has the majority."
Pelosi herself plans to vote for the bill, but her progressive peers do not.
The massive, 75-member Congressional Progressive Caucus is vowing to oppose the bill. The Congressional Black Caucus is whipping its members to withhold their votes -- yes, or no -- until Boehner can demonstrate that more than half of his members support the plan. If that's true, the vote total will tick up slowly. However, the expectation, just a few hours before the vote, is that the plan has enough support in each party to pass.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/boehner-to-pelosi-hey-a-little-help-here.php?ref=fpblg
Last edited by Ya-ta Boy on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Egan-Jones Downgrades US From AAA To AA+ |
That made me think of this: "They are living beyond their means and shifting a part of the weight of their problems to the world economy," Putin told the pro-Kremlin youth group Nashi while touring its lakeside summer camp some five hours drive north of Moscow.
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-u-parasite-global-economy-191447751.html
I've no doubt he's said something like that before, but it has a new resonance now. More people are listening.
If you were the treasury secretary of any country holding US gov't bonds, what would your advice be to your government, knowing as you do now that a faction in control of one of the two parties talks openly of not paying you back? |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Well if there ever is a progressive party (I know, I'm dreaming) with a majority in the House of Representatives, I guess we know what to do: hold the government to ransom until it capitulates and we get the massive reforms we need. Can you imagine the vilification? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| If you were the treasury secretary of any country holding US gov't bonds, what would your advice be to your government, knowing as you do now that a faction in control of one of the two parties talks openly of not paying you back? |
Here's the thing: most of them, being a whole lot smarter than ya-ta boy on dave's esl cafe, were already well aware of the situation. You see, they don't get their news watered-down on MSNBC, they actually deal in reality. There is a reason gold and silver have been at record highs for the past couple years now, or why the Chinese and Russians openly talk of finding a replacement reserve currency for the US dollar.
The irony is that this was always the intention. Even when Nixon first took the dollar off the gold standard, they already knew this was the inevitable outcome. Just think of the trillions in worthless paper China will be holding if the rug is pulled out from under them. And the Western banks still have by far the majority of the world's physical gold reserves. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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This writer views the Tea Party as a neo-Confederate movement.
The debt ceiling crisis is the latest case in which the radical right in the South has held America hostage until its demands are met. Presidents Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln refused to appease the Southern fanatics. Unfortunately, President Obama and the Democrats in Congress chose not to follow their example and instead gave in. In doing so, they have encouraged the neo-Confederate minority in Congress to find yet another opportunity in the near future to extort concessions from America's majority by sabotaging America's government.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/index.html |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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^^
Yes. That is precisely my biggest concern with the Tea Party, as well. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
This writer views the Tea Party as a neo-Confederate movement.
The debt ceiling crisis is the latest case in which the radical right in the South has held America hostage until its demands are met. Presidents Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln refused to appease the Southern fanatics. Unfortunately, President Obama and the Democrats in Congress chose not to follow their example and instead gave in. In doing so, they have encouraged the neo-Confederate minority in Congress to find yet another opportunity in the near future to extort concessions from America's majority by sabotaging America's government.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/index.html |
At least Jackson got rid of the central bank. That was his greatest accomplishment by far.
As for "neo-Confederates", it's all a complete and utter load of BS. But even if the Tea Party were such a thing, it would only be admirable. With the radical, hyper-corporatist, Wall Street run Obama administration literally shredding the constitution more and more with every "crisis" that magically crops up (setting a deadly precedent for the next neo-Con that is liable to get into the White House), having the public vehemently reaffirm states rights is pretty much the only thing that can possibly save the country at this point (at least using peaceful measures)... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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The graph in those links really highlights the geographical nature of the Tea Party and I was not aware of it before. I guess the Midwestern and Western members, to continue the neo-Confederate theme, are neo-Copperheads. It seems odd no one in the media has pointed out the distribution until 9 months after the election. Well, maybe not so odd...
I think too much can be made of the Confederate angle. It's important, but not the only issue (of course). At least as important in my mind is the astroturf aspect. After all, the corporate backers are the source of funding and you are as concerned about the effect of big money on politics as I am. Then there is the extremist libertarian issue with size of government being the only thing, rather than a conservative goal of efficient government.
**
One result of the debt deal that hasn't been highlighted is that the rest of this year is going to be simply a continuation of this same fight. After the 5 week congressional vacation, there will be another fight over pretty much the same ground, then around Thanksgiving will be the Super Congress thing. Prediction: the Super Congress will fail and the trigger will be pulled (the Tea Party cares much less about defense than taxes, or the Dems will cave on social spending).
There are smart ways to save money and there are stupid, irresponsible ways. As long as the GOP is broken, we will be stuck with the latter. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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It seems not everyone is thrilled with the outcome of the debt ceiling debacle.
"China hopes the U.S. administration and the Congress would take responsible policy measures to handle its debt issue in light with the interests of the whole world including those of the United States," Zhou said...
Also Wednesday, a Chinese rating agency said it has downgraded Washington's credit rating from A+ to A.
The move by Dagong Global Credit Rating Co., which is little-known abroad, is unlikely to affect U.S. borrowing rates but reflects the pessimism Washington's debt battle has generated worldwide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20110803/as-china-us-debt/
We're now being lectured by China on financial responsibility. China.
And it isn't just the Chinese who are not impressed with the whole economic outlook of the US:
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) � Asian stocks fell sharply Wednesday as relief the U.S. averted a debt default gave way to increasing pessimism over prospects for the world's biggest economy...
Japan's Nikkei 225 index slid 2.1 percent to 9,642.86 and Hong Kong's Hang Seng shed 1.9 percent to 21,995.75.
South Korea's benchmark Kospi index tumbled 2.7 percent to 2,064.35. Stock markets in Australia, Taiwan, India, Singapore, the Philippines and Indonesia also dropped.
There "seems to be a lot of fear in the market, a lot of panic," said Jackson Wong, vice president at Tanrich Securities in Hong Kong, citing worries that the terms of a deal signed by President Barack Obama on Tuesday to avert a U.S. default may worsen an already slowing economy.
http://news.yahoo.com/asian-stocks-fall-amid-dim-us-economy-prospects-034209171.html |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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The most withering statement I've come across so far:
If the Bush administration's conduct of the war in Iraq and against terror undercut the world's belief in the United States' stated international principles and the 2008-2009 financial crisis undercut the world's belief in American capitalism, this debacle contributed to a growing sense of doubt about the functioning of American democracy...
While American political leaders may try to rationalize this deal away by saying it is the best that could have been struck, that's nonsense. America could have done this without such unnecessary, confidence-shaking drama. America could have done this in a way that was consistent with sound economic principles. America could have done this in a way that was intellectually honest. But we did not. As a result, while this deal may have temporarily shored up market confidence in the U.S., the process leading up to it has almost certainly done much more severe lasting damage than we are easily able to calculate today.
http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/02/we_have_a_deal_but_washington_has_also_deeply_damaged_america_s_brand
Second best comment I've found: The real issue is not small versus big government. It is smart versus dumb government. Germany and Singapore both have smart governments. The United States, alas, has a dumb government that now seems also to have a death wish.
http://prestowitz.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/01/the_american_way_of_suicide
This article was also worthwhile: The Sweet Smell of Schadenfreude
State wire service Xinhua expressed its dismay at the potential of a default in the run-up to the final debt decisions, calling the political brinkmanship in Washington "dangerously irresponsible" in an editorial last week and noting that the "ugliest part of the saga is that the well-being of many other countries is also in the impact zone when the donkey and the elephant fight."
"The United States is now in the same basic trap as the Old Continent," forced to enact harsh austerity measures in order to reduce the deficit, but hampering economic growth in the process. The deal "transmits the message that the policies proposed by the radical core of the Republican Party, the Tea Party, will be an obstacle for crisis management in Washington," the editors conclude.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/08/02/the_sweet_smell_of_schadenfreude?page=0,1 |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| While American political leaders may try to rationalize this deal away by saying it is the best that could have been struck, that's nonsense. America could have done this without such unnecessary, confidence-shaking drama. |
Of course, because the "drama" is deliberately orchestrated political theater, the purpose of which has been to transfer the power of the purse from congress to the executive (just as the power to declare war has already been transferred). It gives slime ball Obama an excuse to pretend his back is against the wall, so he "has to" make unpopular cuts to entitlement (while continuing the illegal wars of aggression and giving trillions to his Goldman-Sachs cronies). At the same time it sets the stage for future drama against the dastardly Republicans, giving the precedent for a strong executive to seize more power in the name of "saving the country" (which fascist-corporatist apologists like ya-ta are all for).
And of course the Republicans are crazy like a fox... They know full well that "forcing" Obama into seizing further power from the Congress will be controversial, but that regardless that power will pass on to the next Republican president. Just like Obama campaigned against all the evils of the Bush administration, and then went on to keep in place the exact same policies (and expand on them), the next Republican president will inherit all of Obama's tyrannical powers and expand them. Thus the special interest controlled, corporatist two-party system's agenda continues to roll forward while the American people go bankrupt and lose more of their freedoms. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The graph in those links really highlights the geographical nature of the Tea Party and I was not aware of it before. I guess the Midwestern and Western members, to continue the neo-Confederate theme, are neo-Copperheads. It seems odd no one in the media has pointed out the distribution until 9 months after the election. Well, maybe not so odd...
I think too much can be made of the Confederate angle. It's important, but not the only issue (of course). At least as important in my mind is the astroturf aspect. After all, the corporate backers are the source of funding and you are as concerned about the effect of big money on politics as I am. Then there is the extremist libertarian issue with size of government being the only thing, rather than a conservative goal of efficient government. |
Corporate donors are a problem. But I have a feeling the Tea Party might become more useful when we start discussing defense cuts. The mainline GOP is beyond redemption on this point. Watch Rand Paul be the one signalling Tea Party willingness to cut defense spending. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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