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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: Some people aren't apologists for this reason |
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http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20110802000634
Experts note that Korea may be the country with the highest rate of people punished for making false accusations or giving false testimonies. In 2007, Koreans indicted for perjury or calumny totaled 1,544 and 2,171, respectively, compared to only nine and 10 in Japan. Taking into account Japan�s population is about 2.5 times Korea�s, experts said the figures indicate that Koreans commit perjury and make false accusations about 420 times and 540 times the rate of the Japanese.
In a further reflection of the relevance of his theory, Korea has been inundated with fraud, accusations and complaints, with Koreans� trust in strangers and foreigners remaining at lower levels, compared to other advanced countries.
According to statistics from the Justice Ministry, a total of 205,140 cases of fraud took place in 2008, costing victims about 2.8 trillion won.
Misappropriations and breaches of duty numbered 26,750 and 5,135, bringing about losses of 806 billion won and 617 billion won, respectively, in the same year.
The number of cases submitted to the prosecution increased from 564,532 in 2007 to 594,058 in 2008 and 618,470 in 2009, according to the Supreme Prosecutors� Office. More than 60 percent of them have not led to indictments by prosecutors, suggesting Koreans tend to rush to accuse someone without trying to find a compromise.
Critics say the pervasion of false accusations, perjury and distorted testimonies reflects the embarrassing truth the country faces ― many Koreans don�t feel guilty about lying, keeping societal trust at a low level.
Historical roots
Experts note the lack of a sense of justice among Koreans may be due to their tendency to put personal relations ahead of laws, which is rooted in traditional culture and has been augmented by the turbulent modern history of the nation. They say such attachment to personal ties has hampered the strict application of law and public norms in Korean society. In the Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910), which was based on Confucian principles, those who accused their parents, superiors and spouses were punished for tainting �fine customs.�
�Koreans tend to lie to maintain personal relationships, which shows the characteristics of Korean society oriented to connections and harmony,� said Mun Yong-rin, professor of education at Seoul National University, in a paper. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think its part of the culture. Tons of things I like or even love about Korea but anyone who has spent any time teachng kids knows how prevalent cheating is and its not seen as a big of a deal as it is in the west.
We all tell little white lies, however its way more than what would be acceptable in the west. |
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Chris.Quigley
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Location: Belfast. N Ireland
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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delete: double post
Last edited by Chris.Quigley on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Some people aren't apologists for this reason |
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Stout wrote: |
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20110802000634
Experts note that Korea may be the country with the highest rate of people punished for making false accusations or giving false testimonies. . |
This seems to be a good thing no? Note here that they are not the country that has the highest rate of people MAKING false accusations or giving false testimonies. They MAY be the country that PUNISHES the most number of people for doing so.
Good for them.
And as for being lying and false less acceptable/common in the West...no
http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/05/19/the-perjury-epidemic/read/reading.
They don't even keep stats on it in America because
"There is simply too much of it and too little is prosecuted to generate any meaningful statistics".
A country that punishes more of its citizens for lying under oath...that's a good thing. |
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Chris.Quigley
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Location: Belfast. N Ireland
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chris.Quigley"]
Quote: |
Taking into account Japan�s population is about 2.5 times Korea�s, experts said the figures indicate that Koreans commit perjury and make false accusations about 420 times and 540 times the rate of the Japanese. |
Lets use our critical thinking skills - you know that skill you supposedly learned in your liberal arts degree - this just doesn't follow. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chris.Quigley"]
Chris.Quigley wrote: |
Quote: |
Taking into account Japan�s population is about 2.5 times Korea�s, experts said the figures indicate that Koreans commit perjury and make false accusations about 420 times and 540 times the rate of the Japanese. |
Lets use our critical thinking skills - you know that skill you supposedly learned in your liberal arts degree - this just doesn't follow. |
Indeed. It indicates that Koreans are found guilty and PUNISHED at much higher rates for sure.
But rationality (to say nothing of common sense) tells us that this doesn't necessarily indicate that Koreans actually commit perjury and make false accusations hundreds of times more than the Japanese ( who live in a country where saving face and maintaining harmony is just as important if not more so). |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Even good ol' Samsung will square with the facts-
With societal trust remaining low, Korea is gripped by intensifying social conflict. In a social conflict index list of 27 OECD member countries, published in a 2010 research by the Samsung Economic Research Institute, Korea ranked fourth ― behind Turkey, Poland and Slovakia.
Try reading and addressing the body of evidence presented in the whole article (written and researched by a native), rather than trying to disprove the whole thing by attempting to show how one or two points must be misleading. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Stout wrote: |
Even good ol' Samsung will square with the facts-
With societal trust remaining low, Korea is gripped by intensifying social conflict. In a social conflict index list of 27 OECD member countries, published in a 2010 research by the Samsung Economic Research Institute, Korea ranked fourth ― behind Turkey, Poland and Slovakia.
Try reading and addressing the body of evidence presented in the whole article (written and researched by a native), rather than trying to disprove the whole thing by attempting to show how one or two points must be misleading. |
No one's trying to disprove it.
I merely found it amusing how in an attempt to bash Korea you posted an article that actually makes it look good as I showed above.
Better luck next time.
Oh and just because something is written by a native doesn't necessarily make it true. If it had been an article about how native English teachers drink and do drugs....
Yeah that's what I thought. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Location: Your dreams
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
No one's trying to disprove it. Indeed I agree with much of the article.
I merely found it amusing how in an attempt to bash Korea you posted an article that actually makes it look good as I showed above.
Better luck next time.
Oh and just because something is written by a native doesn't necessarily make it true. If it had been an article about how native English teachers drink and do drugs....
Yeah that's what I thought. |
Mmm, you are making assumptions as well, I believe.
You said:
Quote: |
Note here that they are not the country that has the highest rate of people MAKING false accusations or giving false testimonies. They MAY be the country that PUNISHES the most number of people for doing so. |
How do you know this? True, the article doesn't say that this is the case. But do you have proof that you can say, for certain, otherwise? The rest of your posts seem to assume that this point is correct... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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DejaVu wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
No one's trying to disprove it. Indeed I agree with much of the article.
I merely found it amusing how in an attempt to bash Korea you posted an article that actually makes it look good as I showed above.
Better luck next time.
Oh and just because something is written by a native doesn't necessarily make it true. If it had been an article about how native English teachers drink and do drugs....
Yeah that's what I thought. |
Mmm, you are making assumptions as well, I believe.
You said:
Quote: |
Note here that they are not the country that has the highest rate of people MAKING false accusations or giving false testimonies. They MAY be the country that PUNISHES the most number of people for doing so. |
How do you know this? True, the article doesn't say that this is the case. But do you have proof that you can say, for certain, otherwise? The rest of your posts seem to assume that this point is correct... |
um..that IS what the article states. That they may be the country that punishes the most people for making false accusations.
T
In other words I wasn't saying that they aren't the country whose people make the most false statements. I was pointing out that the ARTICLE doesn't say that.
And if you read carefully you will see that the rest of my posts deal with what the article says and its implications. Not my personal argument...which for the record would rest on more secure ground than the KoreanHerald.  |
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Chokse
Joined: 22 May 2009
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, TheUrbanMyth makes a valid point. The "natives" of this country cheat and lie (they can't help it... it's cultural), so it's probably best not to believe anything from an article written by one (Insert big grin!). |
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Chokse
Joined: 22 May 2009
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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The United States has more people arrested and punished each year for murder. That must mean the US is the only country actively punishing those who commit murder. I'm sure other countries have much higher rates of murder, but they just never get around to punishing those who commit it.
The above is an example of TheUrbanMyth's logic. Lovely, isn't it?
Dude, if a county has a high rate of people being punished for a certain crime, it ALMOST ALWAYS indicates that said country has a particular problem with that type of crime. Statistics 101 dude. See the difference between the example above and what is written in the article the OP posted? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Chokse wrote: |
The United States has more people arrested and punished each year for murder. That must mean the US is the only country actively punishing those who commit murder. I'm sure other countries have much higher rates of murder, but they just never get around to punishing those who commit it.
The above is an example of TheUrbanMyth's logic. Lovely, isn't it?
Dude, if a county has a high rate of people being punished for a certain crime, it ALMOST ALWAYS indicates that said country has a particular problem with that type of crime. Statistics 101 dude. See the difference between the example above and what is written in the article the OP posted? |
Key words being "high rate." According to my calculator the number of Koreans indicted for perjury in 2007 vs the total population is roughly 0.00003%
In what world is that a "high rate"?
Looks like you should have chosen Math 101 instead of Statistics 101 |
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tatertot

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Chokse wrote: |
The United States has more people arrested and punished each year for murder. That must mean the US is the only country actively punishing those who commit murder. I'm sure other countries have much higher rates of murder, but they just never get around to punishing those who commit it.
The above is an example of TheUrbanMyth's logic. Lovely, isn't it?
Dude, if a county has a high rate of people being punished for a certain crime, it ALMOST ALWAYS indicates that said country has a particular problem with that type of crime. Statistics 101 dude. See the difference between the example above and what is written in the article the OP posted? |
Key words being "high rate." According to my calculator the number of Koreans indicted for perjury in 2007 vs the total population is roughly 0.00003%
In what world is that a "high rate"?
Looks like you should have chosen Math 101 instead of Statistics 101 |
You're off by a factor of 100. Relative to other countries, 0.003% may be quite high (even if it's not high percentage-wise). |
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