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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| oldtrafford wrote: |
Kwangjuchicken wrote only need to know three letters of the alphabet. E, S, and L.
It's EFL for those teaching in Korea you fool!! Good god, get to grips with the basics!!!
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This was addressed in the OP and instead of being so emoticonally outraged by it, why not outline the differences between EFL and ESL? |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Of course, if John Doe over there plays bingo form 12 months at a hakwon and does nothing more with his time than show up at work, collect his cheque and spend his weekends getting hammered...well guess what his "experience" will be near to worthless in ANY field. |
I myself, have never met anyone like that, not foolproof, but must surely be telling. John Doe could never survive in a hakwon for 12 months playing bingo, the function at any typical hakwon would preclude it, he'd be fired after 2 weeks.
Getting regularly hammered over weekends is part and parcel of a significantly different issue. Aside from that, many teachers are young and want to extend their social network.
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| John X however worked as a teacher, took some online courses, networked, picked up some language skills and did all sorts of creative things as a part of his work...well his experience stands a chance of being worth something in a related field back home or even in another field abroad. |
Stands a chance!! Stands a chance!! What, is John X insane? Wasting his time with these puny online courses, cluttering his head with all sorts of pie in the sky stuff. Has he never heard of 'opportunity costs' having been at the university and all?
In short, I'm saying that unless you want to pursue a momentum with Korea, then steer clear of this stuff. Paddy, you could at least have given that caveat. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering the economy in the States right now, a lot of the people currently teaching in Korea would be waiting tables, working at Wal Mart, or going to graduate school for lack of a better option were they not in Korea. I'm pretty sure Korea looks better than those options. I'm sure someone will chime in with a comment about degrees in basket-weaving, but in my case, my friends who graduated the year prior to me with the same social science degree I have were able to get decent jobs in business straight out of school; that path was more or less closed to '08 graduates. In the grand scheme of things we might be doing, teaching English in Korea doesn't look too bad. That said, I think there's a big difference between coming here at 22 and coming here at 29 in terms of how it might affect future career possibilities. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Of course, if John Doe over there plays bingo form 12 months at a hakwon and does nothing more with his time than show up at work, collect his cheque and spend his weekends getting hammered...well guess what his "experience" will be near to worthless in ANY field. |
I myself, have never met anyone like that, not foolproof, but must surely be telling. John Doe could never survive in a hakwon for 12 months playing bingo, the function at any typical hakwon would preclude it, he'd be fired after 2 weeks.
Getting regularly hammered over weekends is part and parcel of a significantly different issue. Aside from that, many teachers are young and want to extend their social network.
| Quote: |
| John X however worked as a teacher, took some online courses, networked, picked up some language skills and did all sorts of creative things as a part of his work...well his experience stands a chance of being worth something in a related field back home or even in another field abroad. |
Stands a chance!! Stands a chance!! What, is John X insane? Wasting his time with these puny online courses, cluttering his head with all sorts of pie in the sky stuff. Has he never heard of 'opportunity costs' having been at the university and all?
In short, I'm saying that unless you want to pursue a momentum with Korea, then steer clear of this stuff. Paddy, you could at least have given that caveat. |
Sorry shifty but you simply do not get what I am saying. Either I am wording it wrong or you are obtuse about it.
Not to worry however, this is just an online forum. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Of course, if John Doe over there plays bingo form 12 months at a hakwon and does nothing more with his time than show up at work, collect his cheque and spend his weekends getting hammered...well guess what his "experience" will be near to worthless in ANY field. |
I myself, have never met anyone like that, not foolproof, but must surely be telling. John Doe could never survive in a hakwon for 12 months playing bingo, the function at any typical hakwon would preclude it, he'd be fired after 2 weeks.
Getting regularly hammered over weekends is part and parcel of a significantly different issue. Aside from that, many teachers are young and want to extend their social network.
| Quote: |
| John X however worked as a teacher, took some online courses, networked, picked up some language skills and did all sorts of creative things as a part of his work...well his experience stands a chance of being worth something in a related field back home or even in another field abroad. |
Stands a chance!! Stands a chance!! What, is John X insane? Wasting his time with these puny online courses, cluttering his head with all sorts of pie in the sky stuff. Has he never heard of 'opportunity costs' having been at the university and all?
In short, I'm saying that unless you want to pursue a momentum with Korea, then steer clear of this stuff. Paddy, you could at least have given that caveat. |
Sorry shifty but you simply do not get what I am saying. Either I am wording it wrong or you are obtuse about it.
Not to worry however, this is just an online forum. |
Admittedly, I am being a trifle obtuse about it. I feel I do understand what you are saying, but I would say that, wouldn't I? In any case what you you are purporting to mean seems pretty straightforward.
Maybe I do have some blind spots. These are based on my stance vis a vis the following.
I find schmoozing with Koreans repugnant.
I am averse to posters seeming to evince a latent antipathy or contempt for the average EFL'er in Korea.
But I do find praiseworthy your 'action this day' or proactive approach, which can only be a good thing in anyone's language.
Regarding the fundamental issue at hand, though, I find myself at opposite side of the fence. I think the stakes are quite high when it comes to apportioning of effort. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Well I respect your view of this issue shifty. Your last posts explains a lot.
I simply do not share that view and I still think you are not really grasping what I am trying to say, most likely because I am not wording it properly.
Anyway, we can certainly agree to disagree. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: |
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So what would your recommendations be for someone coming over (or perhaps there already) who has a BA, and useless TESOL cert?
Near as I can tell, the best thing for that person to do is go back home and get more education.
I can't see any real inroads to better jobs in Korea without marrying a Korean. (which seems to be a catch-all option that will even do you better than getting an MA TESOL). |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| There are heaps of other examples. |
I thought what patrick said was pretty self-explanatory. You can choose to do something with your life or whine about it. Unfortunately, Dave's gets more than its fair share of whiners.
Often you can predict how some posters will do in Korea before they arrive. Some will ask about teaching conditions, lesson planning, classroom techniques, and the local neighborhood. Others will ask about having one night stands with Korean women, what bars to frequent and how little money they can come to Korea with. Guess which one will do well in a foreign country and which one ends up spewing racist rants against Koreans?  |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Ouch  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| There are heaps of other examples. |
I thought what patrick said was pretty self-explanatory. You can choose to do something with your life or whine about it. Unfortunately, Dave's gets more than its fair share of whiners.
Often you can predict how some posters will do in Korea before they arrive. Some will ask about teaching conditions, lesson planning, classroom techniques, and the local neighborhood. Others will ask about having one night stands with Korean women, what bars to frequent and how little money they can come to Korea with. Guess which one will do well in a foreign country and which one ends up spewing racist rants against Koreans? |
A lot of this is true. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| There are heaps of other examples. |
I thought what patrick said was pretty self-explanatory. You can choose to do something with your life or whine about it. Unfortunately, Dave's gets more than its fair share of whiners.
Often you can predict how some posters will do in Korea before they arrive. Some will ask about teaching conditions, lesson planning, classroom techniques, and the local neighborhood. Others will ask about having one night stands with Korean women, what bars to frequent and how little money they can come to Korea with. Guess which one will do well in a foreign country and which one ends up spewing racist rants against Koreans? |
A lot of this is true. |
I think you guys are just showing underhanded contempt for the ESL (EFL!) community. What people do in their own time is their own business and suggesting that people are wasting their time because they're not a full-time student or working the equivalent of another job in their off-time is silly. Sure, people can take online courses, they can spend time smooching and networking and being opportunists, and get PhDs in Asian History and Linguistics. Reality for 90% (there's always that 10%) is that people work when they are at work and their downtime is to relax and spend it with friends and family or just having fun. And if you were that alpha go-getter personality, teaching ESL as your dayjob in Korea is certainly not maximizing your options. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't see any real inroads to better jobs in Korea without marrying a Korean. (which seems to be a catch-all option that will even do you better than getting an MA TESOL). |
I've been married to a Korean for over a year now and haven't even bothered to change my visa status from E2. Don't see the point. Unless I wanted to open my own school (which I don't) I can't see how I could be doing any better than I am now. The F2 licence to print money idea is mainly just seen as a magic ticket out of the hagwan or public school, where there are limited opportunities for decent overtime. Another popular myth about TEFL in Korea |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I can't see any real inroads to better jobs in Korea without marrying a Korean. (which seems to be a catch-all option that will even do you better than getting an MA TESOL). |
I've been married to a Korean for over a year now and haven't even bothered to change my visa status from E2. Don't see the point. Unless I wanted to open my own school (which I don't) I can't see how I could be doing any better than I am now. The F2 licence to print money idea is mainly just seen as a magic ticket out of the hagwan or public school, where there are limited opportunities for decent overtime. Another popular myth about TEFL in Korea |
Right. The F visa doesn't give you an automatic raise.
The F visa is available to everyone through the point program, but you have to work for it. That will discourage 99% of foreigners. The F visa is no printing press; any money that comes from having it is through work. Again, that should make most turn on the TV and crack a beer.
The F visa is a ticket out of public schools and hagwons. Anyone in the public schools system, on an F visa and has no outside/second job is just dumb (if money means anything to you, that is). If you want more money or perhaps a better job, the F visa can help that become a reality. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I can't see any real inroads to better jobs in Korea without marrying a Korean. (which seems to be a catch-all option that will even do you better than getting an MA TESOL). |
I've been married to a Korean for over a year now and haven't even bothered to change my visa status from E2. Don't see the point. Unless I wanted to open my own school (which I don't) I can't see how I could be doing any better than I am now. The F2 licence to print money idea is mainly just seen as a magic ticket out of the hagwan or public school, where there are limited opportunities for decent overtime. Another popular myth about TEFL in Korea |
It's not all about money.
It has a lot to do with being able to switch jobs any time, get part time gigs, work for smaller universities (who won't touch E-2 visas) teach privates and on and on. The benefits are not how much cash you can squirrel away. |
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