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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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There is a reason why his posts sound like a broken record. There is no analysis of events going on; there is just an attempt to try to hammer things to fit preconceived notions. That is what happens when you start with the answer and work backwards. You not only miss the nuances of what is happening, you risk missing huge major events right in front of your nose because they don't fit the paradigm of how things 'have to be' because someone told you so. If you take time to discuss with him if there is indeed an international Jewish conspiracy behind everything, then you just reinforce his view and do not make any progress on understanding the event you started out discussing.
There is something else deeper going on here, but I can't prove it. It looks very much like people on the far right have adopted tactics to distract (if they can) discussion by trying to heighten rhetoric to a constant shrill scream. It tends to shift the discussion to their world view, rather than the original issue. Take a look at the Norway thread if you have time. There is precious little discussion of what happened in Norway and why. There is a lot of discussion of whether Breivik is a Christian or not and American gun laws. WTF? Where is the discussion of the relationship between hate speech and violence? As I see it, there is a tactic of distraction going on. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| I'll be back there with bells on if things go the way we hope. |
I am interested in this myself.
I am nearing the end of my teaching career. (I've been teaching since '74.) If the right wing doesn't completely screw up my retirement (and given their insane antics these last couple of months, that isn't certain), I have thought about going to Libya and experiencing an entirely new part of the world. (I once looked into the Czech Republic, but was told to bring money since I wouldn't make enough to live on. That is one step too far. I would like to make enough so that I don't eat up my savings.) What kind of things are available in Libya?
So from an entirely selfish point of view, die, Qaddafi, die! |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| There is a reason why his posts sound like a broken record. There is no analysis of events going on; there is just an attempt to try to hammer things to fit preconceived notions. |
Analysis?? You mean spin. That's all any of your posts here have amounted to. Just look at how unbelievably wrong all your predictions and so-called analyses have been on every point.
Seriously, it's an embarrassment. First you started off with all the nonsense regurgitated from MSNBC (programmed directly into your brain) that the war would last a few days and we'd be greeted like liberators (blah blah blah). Several months later, and the Libyan people are standing by Gaddafi, and he's winning the war! Many dead, tons of money wasted, and the reputation of the US dragged further into the mud, all because of spin and lies from people like yourself. "Analysis" my foot. You couldn't analyze your way out of a paper bag. 
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| If you take time to discuss with him if there is indeed an international Jewish conspiracy behind everything |
Race-pimping is the last refuge of the hypocritical, racist, phony liberal mind. They actually believe that all discussion ends the minute they point their finger and yell "racist". It is also the surest sign there is that ya-ta is losing a debate.
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| There is something else deeper going on here, but I can't prove it. |
Of course you can't. Because it's all made up and there's not a shred of logic to any of it. Your entire MSNBC world view is just a giant series of lies and obfuscation. That's why to you war = peace, lies and propaganda = "analysis", and criticism of the elite = "Jewish conspiracy".
Last edited by visitorq on Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| that the war would last a few days and we'd be greeted like liberators. Blah blah blah. |
Please quote where I said that, or anything even remotely close. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| that the war would last a few days and we'd be greeted like liberators. Blah blah blah. |
Please quote where I said that, or anything even remotely close. |
Gee, I dunno. Exchanges like the following between you and your friend butterfly certainly seem to indicate that you thought our intervention would be "appreciated"...
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| There was a wonderful telephone interview yesterday with someone named Mohammed Ali, a member of the rebel government in Misrata. He was reporting heavy artillery fire from Qadaffi forces that was 'ravaging' the city and port. He said he hoped Russia and China were shamed by their failure to support the rebels. |
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| Yeah, I saw that; I think the people who really appreciate this intervention are too busy fighting or too scared to go out and express it (which would be the majority of people in Tripoli, I would say). |
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| On the TV we're seeing tonnes of people adorned in green in Green Square etc but most of those people are shipped in from Serte. I was in Benghazi when Ghaddaffi gave his address in which he declared 'Jihad' on Switzerland, and there were scores of coaches coming in from Serte. He does this, or his people do. The journalists covering this conflict are not allowed access to anywhere outside the centre, if they did they would find the majority of people despise Ghaddaffi. |
Funny how more recently Tripoli has been the site of massive pro-Gaddafi rallies. And no, I'm not happy about it, I just realize that we are not wanted and that the whole damn situation is none of our business. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| certainly seem to indicate |
Perhaps you need to up-grade your reading skills. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Gaddafi seeks Islamist alliance |
After 40 years in power Qaddafi is seeking an alliance with people he used to kill off, just so he can stay in power...it doesn't look like he has many alternatives if he wants to stay a dictator.
It mystifies me why any Westerner would support Qaddafi. It just doesn't.
I can understand why anyone would question whether it was a wise move or not to support the rebels. It has always been an iffy situation. I can (sort of) understand why Americans would question whether this was a War or 'just a war'...it's a debate we've been having since 1812. But why anyone would support Qaddafi is beyond me, unless he were a member of one of the factions Qaddafi awarded with goodies while he was in power, or whether he were a Christianist end-of-the-world type, or whether he was a I-hate-Obama-and-anything-he-favors-I hate faction.
In the end, it really comes down to: do you support an attempt to help people trying to bring improvement to their country, or do you support dictatorship. There is certainly room for disagreement on whether we did it in the right way, or whether we did enough. I have to question whether people who argue for more guns for each individual person is really a pacifist. I just do. Somehow I have to question their sincerity.
In the end, we may lose. I would hate that outcome. But I will defend our attempt to help people who are seeking freedom. Call me a fool if you will. I will also criticize as morally bankrupt those who say that if we can't/won't intervene in Syria, then we shouldn't in Libya. I say, help who you can when you can, and mourn those you can't. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
In the end, it really comes down to: do you support an attempt to help people trying to bring improvement to their country, or do you support dictatorship. There is certainly room for disagreement on whether we did it in the right way, or whether we did enough. I have to question whether people who argue for more guns for each individual person is really a pacifist. I just do. Somehow I have to question their sincerity.
In the end, we may lose. I would hate that outcome. But I will defend our attempt to help people who are seeking freedom. Call me a fool if you will. I will also criticize as morally bankrupt those who say that if we can't/won't intervene in Syria, then we shouldn't in Libya. I say, help who you can when you can, and mourn those you can't. |
This is the greatest sin to come out of the Progressive movement... Isolationism used to be a virtuous stance for any respectable, freedom loving nation to take. That is until the evil Woodrow Wilson (taking his cue from Lincoln and his butcherous war criminal generals a generation prior) convinced a large segment of the public that interventionism was a good thing. It has been all down hill since then, minus the brief period following WWII where we fortuitously gained a massive trade surplus due to all the destruction in Europe.
Beyond that, none of our meddling or wars of aggression have ever led to any good whatsoever, except for filling the pockets of the war profiteers. All we ever do is bomb a bunch of innocent people, destroy whole nations and leave them in tatters, and spend trillions of dollars doing it while our own country goes bankrupt. We should withdraw all our troops, keep only a sufficient military buildup to protect our own territory (the US proper, not our overseas empire), and devote our resources to trade and prosperity. That is what America is supposed to be all about: freedom and prosperity, not war and ruination. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Beyond that, you are defending evil. |
So you are, as YaTa suggests, trying to drown out the free expression of others? What was that about democracy?
| VisitorQ wrote: |
| So excuse me for chiming in to point that out from time to time (and in fact I've only replied a few times in this thread - beyond that I let you and ya-ta freely spout your misinformation and false predictions for many pages without getting involved). |
Well actually I took a look, and you have placed somewhere in the region of 45 posts in this thread, which perhaps by your prolific standards is only a few, but it is interesting to note that nearly every one of them contains a personal insult directed at other posters trying to discuss things and find out more from other posters. And again, as YaTa suggested, there is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing things with you, you don't actually know anything. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| I'll be back there with bells on if things go the way we hope. |
I am interested in this myself.
I am nearing the end of my teaching career. (I've been teaching since '74.) If the right wing doesn't completely screw up my retirement (and given their insane antics these last couple of months, that isn't certain), I have thought about going to Libya and experiencing an entirely new part of the world. (I once looked into the Czech Republic, but was told to bring money since I wouldn't make enough to live on. That is one step too far. I would like to make enough so that I don't eat up my savings.) What kind of things are available in Libya?
So from an entirely selfish point of view, die, Qaddafi, die! |
The firm I worked for are keeping a low profle, because anyone who had a successful business in Libya had to be in with the regime, so I don't think I will be able to work for them again. But after the war there are going to be tonnes of opportunities in training, because so much is needed - it has been such a dysfunctional place for such a long time, there has been such a poor education system. Westerners and Egyptians have been doing all the work there for a long time, only for so many projects to fail because of corruption. They will have the cash to pay for quality training (very good salaries, comparable to Saudi) and the people are very, very receptive to it (unlike Saudi) so its a good place to work.
Before it was a hard place to live in many ways because you could tell people weren't happy. Also deeply conservative, so you couldn't get a drink anywhere (pot widely available though  ) and you have to be very careful what you say about religion, but they are good, good people in the main, their shortcomings are only a consequence of awful the years of Ghaddaffi's rule. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
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| Beyond that, you are defending evil. |
So you are, as YaTa suggests, trying to drown out the free expression of others? What was that about democracy? |
You are free to post as many lies and as much disinfo as you want (you've already spent 40+ pages doing it). I am also free to call you on it as much as I want (and actually I've only addressed you personally a few times in this thread, as well as a few other overt trolls like menino80). Most of my posts are directed at ya-ta, who is the spin doctor king and needs to be called out.
If a bunch of neo-Cons were on here drumming up support for an illegal war launched by Bush somewhere, perhaps you'd feel the need to speak up and point out how full of it they are. Well the same case applies here.
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| Well actually I took a look, and you have placed somewhere in the region of 45 posts in this thread, which perhaps by your prolific standards is only a few, but it is interesting to note that nearly every one of them contains a personal insult directed at other posters trying to discuss things and find out more from other posters. |
If you say so (you must really have a lot of time on your hands to go and count how many posts I've made in a 45 page thread)... I would say each "exchange" with another poster uses up around 3-5 posts. So I've basically engaged this thread a handful of times. A lot less than you. Moreover, I waited until the second half of the thread to get going, after you and ya-ta clown had been proven wrong. And boy oh boy, were you ever proven wrong... it's amazing you have the gall to keep posting after that (I would have been too embarrassed myself).
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| And again, as YaTa suggested, there is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing things with you, you don't actually know anything. |
Says the person who was wrong about every prediction made in this thread, and who and believed all the lies leading up to the war
But I suppose you "knew" that this pointless and illegal war of aggression would drag on for several months, with Gaddafi winning and the people backing him (because surely you were far too knowledgeable to think it could only last for "days, not weeks" as Obama said it would). Yeah. Don't make me laugh.
Last edited by visitorq on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Meanwhile, in other news, Al Jazeera reporting that Khamis is dead after a NATO raid. Unconfirmed. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| there is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing things with you, you don't actually know anything. |
QFT, dude is a joke of a poster. paranoid, insult, wash, rinse repeat |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| there is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing things with you, you don't actually know anything. |
QFT, dude is a joke of a poster. paranoid, insult, wash, rinse repeat |
Well yes, as is his right, but he absolutely saturates every thread with it. I've come here several times when bored to get into discussions and see his posts and navigate away again. It's a shame. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| there is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing things with you, you don't actually know anything. |
QFT, dude is a joke of a poster. paranoid, insult, wash, rinse repeat |
Well yes, as is his right, but he absolutely saturates every thread with it. I've come here several times when bored to get into discussions and see his posts and navigate away again. It's a shame. |
It's even more of a shame that some naive people would read any of your pro-war BS and laughable predictions (which never come true) and walk away believing any bit of it. I'm just pointing out how wrong you've been. I suppose it's natural for you to resent that, but alas, it cannot be helped.
As for menino, the guy is the biggest joke of a would-be troll on here. He's never committed a single iota of insight to any discussion on any thread, ever. He's like a mosquito in the room buzzing around: most of the time he can be ignored, but from time to time you just need to squash him. |
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