Korean Job Discussion Forums

[some waygug-in]

South Africans are infinitely easier to understand than some of the various accents from the UK.

Some Scots, or Irish are very hard to understand as well as some of those London accents.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed I think. Non native speakers who have worked at producing a "neutral accent" are way ahead of the game compared to the average native speaker. They've had to study, practice and work at all those sounds and are usually better able to explain them.

Many native speakers, though able to speak fluently may have trouble when it comes to explaining how to produce those sounds.

Unless of course, they have done some study of how to teach pronunciation.

I've met some Koreans whose pronunciation was perfect, but not many.
(usually women)

After reading the original post again I nominate it for dumbest post of the year.

[s.tickbeat]

My first language is French, but I did kindergarten through university in English (with a brief two years of middle school done in a French school). Hasn't been a problem. I certainly don't have a French accent, that anyone can readily identify.

[s.tickbeat]

My first language is French, but I did kindergarten through university in English (with a brief two years of middle school done in a French school). Hasn't been a problem. I certainly don't have a French accent, that anyone can readily identify.

[NohopeSeriously]

I once had to attend a British school in Moscow. Many of my Brit teachers had terrible RP accents.

Lesson: never let my future kids attend British schools.

[eamo]

[nathanrutledge]

Well, first you have to define "English."

For example, Irish speakers are influenced by their Gaelic roots - they frequently use the simple past tense instead of the perfect tense:
"She's dead these last ten years" vs. "She's been dead these last ten years."

Speakers in Minnesota and Wisconsin have a heavy German/Scandanavian influence and will frequently speak in a Verb-Object-Subject manner:
"Throw me down the stairs my shoes" vs. "Throw my shoes down the stairs to me."

I'm studying my MA in Applied Linguistics and from my experience (grandfather was the son of an Irish immigrant in Minnesota, grandmother grew up speaking French as a second language in Syria, they married and lived in Boston, and my family ended up in Nebraska) I notice all the peculiarities in pronunciation, word choice, mannerisms, etc....

The FACT is that EVERYONE exhibits some characteristic that is not the norm for "standard" English. Odd word orders, unique tense choices, weird pronunciations, Aborigine/Sioux/Xhosa words, whatever.

Every dialect of English that is mutually intelligible is fine. Now, some Aussie uses pure Australian words, or a S.A. is using Afrikaneers and Xhosa words frequently, that could be a problem, but those people are the exceptions, not the rule.

I don't see Koreans teaching English until they can relax. I know plenty of Korean teachers of English who are fantastic. They know the grammar better than I do (and I am a certified SS grammar Nazi - I am Goering about all that stuff) and they know plenty of slang and other common expressions.

The PROBLEM is that Korean teachers usually lack the creativity or imagination to use language effectively. They get so hung up on the tiny details, the details that a Brit, Kiwi, Aussie, and American would never come to a single conclusion on - and then you tell them your opinion and they come back the next day and say "well, Kiwi/Aussie/Canuck told me that's wrong."

Ugh. Facepalm.

Long story short, there is no "standard" English when we're talking worldwide language. Harping on people because they don't speak your dialect is stupid. As others have said, I've met plenty of second language speakers who were just fine and plenty of first language speakers that I was amazed they were still alive - how could anyone ever understand a word they said was beyond me.

[isisaredead]

[nathanrutledge]

[shifty]

[some waygug-in]

i don't think you understand the argument.

i'll spell it out for you, as this thread has grown a little convoluted: if english is specifically not your only language, then you're not going to understand the nuances of it inherently, and thus would probably not make an ideal teacher of the language.

This makes me laugh. How do you know what level someone's language skills are at, just because they speak more than one language?
It's the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in a long time. (and there are a pile of idiotic things to choose from)

I met a guy from Germany who spoke 5 languages (besides german) and whose English pronunciation was flawless. He was hired right away as an English teacher because anyone with half a brain could see that even though English was not his first language, he certainly did master it. (as well as
4 other languages)

i'm not sure why this thread has progressed to four pages. "jinks" had an excellent argument, and no one commented on it. what s/he missed, though, is the core of this thread: SAs should not be teaching english here, as english is usually their SECOND language.
*~*
This is just dumb. How many SA's (as you call them) have you met?
Depending upon what part of the country they are from and their ethnic background their accents vary greatly. Some of them speak with what can only be described as an "upper class British accent" (the Queen's English no less) Sure, they may not be up on the latest American slang, but neither am I. Your argument is thinner than the broth made out of the shadow of a chicken that starved to death.

we can sit here all day and discuss whether or not someone with the qualifications and understanding of the language should be a teacher - but unless you're completely immersed in the language, you're not going to be an ideal teacher.

Again, who are you to say they were or weren't "immersed" in English?
Do you personally know every South African on the planet and know to what extent they were 'immersed'?

and yes, i've known plenty of people from specifically english speaking countries in my time here who were not ideal - but given the training, they'd easily make a better teacher than someone who speaks english as a second language.

How so? You think people who had to study English to learn it, are not able to relate to students trying to learn the same subject matter?
The idea is preposterous. So by extension, you feel that someone who had to study mathematics should never be allowed to teach it?

i honestly thought that that was obvious, but apparently people are either bored here or south african.[/quote]



Are you really that dumb, or did you take lessons?

I apologize for my rudeness, but this is one thing that I have learned in Korea. Being a native speaker does not make one a better teacher, far from it. What it usually does guarantee is that you will THINK you are a better teacher.