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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: On requested Documents: |
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Yesterday, there was an article in the Korea Herald, "Falling through the Cracks: Turned away for lack of ID," telling us how an American ESL teacher in Korea was turned away from a hospital because she didn't have a foreigner visa yet. She was extremely sick, and they laughed at her for not having even her passport.
Folks, I've been teaching in Korea for 3 years, and just signed my 3rd contract with my public school, and I did the hagwon gig for about 6 months. Don't ever, EVER, give any school your passport, I don't care how much they demand it. They CAN'T keep your passport, it's illegal. Also, don't let them keep your degree (it belongs to you!) or your ARC (alien registration card). Hagwons are more prone to this sneaky crap, but surprisingly, after I signed my 3rd contract with the public school, they "suddenly" wanted to keep my degree (go figure). My principal almost flipped ot when I and my Korean wife took vacation in Australia last year, and they asked me to re-sign my contract just before we visited Japan. Koreans LOVE controlling us--don't be a fool--your documents belong to you--ONLY! Don't be intimidated by sleazy hagwon owners or dictatorial handlers or principles. Know your rights! (or you won't have any!)[/img] |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: On requested Documents: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| Yesterday, there was an article in the Korea Herald, "Falling through the Cracks: Turned away for lack of ID," telling us how an American ESL teacher in Korea was turned away from a hospital because she didn't have a foreigner visa yet. She was extremely sick, and they laughed at her for not having even her passport. |
American, sick, working without a proper visa, no NHIC, no passport in hand and the hospital refused to treat her.
No different than any US hospital if you don't have proof of insurance, legal status in the country and/or ability to pay.
Reciprocity.
As to the rest of the message, it is sort of accurate.
You DO need to give your passport to GOVERNMENT agencies for official use (consulates, embassies, immigration or the police). In some cases (like an ARC application) you can be without it for more than a month. (keep a photocopy of your passport and visa (or better yet, scan them and e-mail a copy to yourself and you can print them out when needed)).
Your ARC is yours to keep (only the police or immigration are entitled to take it from you). If your boss asks for it, return the query by asking for HIS national ID card.
Your diploma is also yours but your employer does need copies for different purposes including your registration at the city and provincial offices of education. Your BEST option is to get a university issued duplicate and use that so if you lose it there is no worry.
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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: Reply to message: |
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| You are incorrect: you do not ever have to let anyone keep your passport under any circumstances. Immigration did not ask to keep mine, only to make copies of it. I'm talking about law, not opinion. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Reply to message: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| You are incorrect: you do not ever have to let anyone keep your passport under any circumstances. Immigration did not ask to keep mine, only to make copies of it. I'm talking about law, not opinion. |
Nope.
Immigration, a division of the ministry of justice IS entitled under international laws and agreements to request and/or hold your passport (no different than a judge or immigration officer in your own country requesting you to surrender your passport for any legal purpose (such as to prevent your departure).
And yes, immigration DID keep your passport when you applied for your ARC (and depending on how long ago it was (prior to 2004?), they also fingerprinted you as well.
Additionally, you are REQUIRED by law to produce and possibly surrender your passport when asked by any competent legal authority (they are also required to show proper ID).
You are also required by law (as a foreigner) to carry either your passport or ARC on your person at all times.
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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: Response: |
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| Were you there when I came through immigration? Funny, I don't remember you. I know what happened to me, and they never kept my passport, they only scanned it. I have taught in 3 foreign countries, and no one ever kept my passport. I guess you let them do anything to you, you probably let them keep your degree too, but your ignorance is not my problem. If you are weak enough to let anyone keep our passport, you will get taken advantage of. |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Response: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| Were you there when I came through immigration? Funny, I don't remember you. I know what happened to me, and they never kept my passport, they only scanned it. I have taught in 3 foreign countries, and no one ever kept my passport. I guess you let them do anything to you, you probably let them keep your degree too, but your ignorance is not my problem. If you are weak enough to let anyone keep our passport, you will get taken advantage of. |
how did you get your sticker in yr passport without giving it to them? |
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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: Reply to message: |
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| I got my passport sticker "in the U.S." like any other citizen. Then, Immigration made copies of my passport and handed it back to me. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: On requested Documents: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| leopard7 wrote: |
| Yesterday, there was an article in the Korea Herald, "Falling through the Cracks: Turned away for lack of ID," telling us how an American ESL teacher in Korea was turned away from a hospital because she didn't have a foreigner visa yet. She was extremely sick, and they laughed at her for not having even her passport. |
American, sick, working without a proper visa, no NHIC, no passport in hand and the hospital refused to treat her.
No different than any US hospital if you don't have proof of insurance, legal status in the country and/or ability to pay.
Reciprocity.
As to the rest of the message, it is sort of accurate.
You DO need to give your passport to GOVERNMENT agencies for official use (consulates, embassies, immigration or the police). In some cases (like an ARC application) you can be without it for more than a month. (keep a photocopy of your passport and visa (or better yet, scan them and e-mail a copy to yourself and you can print them out when needed)).
Your ARC is yours to keep (only the police or immigration are entitled to take it from you). If your boss asks for it, return the query by asking for HIS national ID card.
Your diploma is also yours but your employer does need copies for different purposes including your registration at the city and provincial offices of education. Your BEST option is to get a university issued duplicate and use that so if you lose it there is no worry.
. |
I take issue with the bolded comment. It is the law in the United States that a hospital cannot turn away a patient in an emergency. To do so would make everyone involved criminally liable. This fact is a huge part of the illegal immigration argument - illegal immigrants can't get insurance and so they cost us a lot of money because they always go to the emergency room for routine illnesses.
I know you're not an American ttompatz, but this is just... borderline offensive?
Leopard, I'm interested in how you got your ARC card without leaving the passport with them? Every time I've registered, they held the passport for the duration, and I don't know a single person who had it any different. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Response: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| Were you there when I came through immigration? Funny, I don't remember you. I know what happened to me, and they never kept my passport, they only scanned it. I have taught in 3 foreign countries, and no one ever kept my passport. I guess you let them do anything to you, you probably let them keep your degree too, but your ignorance is not my problem. If you are weak enough to let anyone keep our passport, you will get taken advantage of. |
So when they gave you your visa they didn't even keep it overnight? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: On requested Documents: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| leopard7 wrote: |
| Yesterday, there was an article in the Korea Herald, "Falling through the Cracks: Turned away for lack of ID," telling us how an American ESL teacher in Korea was turned away from a hospital because she didn't have a foreigner visa yet. She was extremely sick, and they laughed at her for not having even her passport. |
American, sick, working without a proper visa, no NHIC, no passport in hand and the hospital refused to treat her.
No different than any US hospital if you don't have proof of insurance, legal status in the country and/or ability to pay.
Reciprocity.
As to the rest of the message, it is sort of accurate.
You DO need to give your passport to GOVERNMENT agencies for official use (consulates, embassies, immigration or the police). In some cases (like an ARC application) you can be without it for more than a month. (keep a photocopy of your passport and visa (or better yet, scan them and e-mail a copy to yourself and you can print them out when needed)).
Your ARC is yours to keep (only the police or immigration are entitled to take it from you). If your boss asks for it, return the query by asking for HIS national ID card.
Your diploma is also yours but your employer does need copies for different purposes including your registration at the city and provincial offices of education. Your BEST option is to get a university issued duplicate and use that so if you lose it there is no worry.
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I take issue with the bolded comment. It is the law in the United States that a hospital cannot turn away a patient in an emergency. . |
Key word here is "emergency". Same in Canada. Unless it's an actual emergency they want to see your health card first. |
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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: Reply to message: |
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I don't know how I can make this any clearer: I came to Korea through a recruiter, like everyone else. I went to the Korean Consulate in Chicago, gave them my documents, transferred them to a hagwon owner, came to Korea, then went to immigration, showed all my documents including my passport, CRC, degree, did a drug test at the hospital, etc. But Immigration never "held" my passport, they copied it, processed the info, and then about 2.5 months later I received my E-2 visa.
The U.S. Government states: "Never surrender your passport to any foreign authority." The only way Korea or any country can "keep" your passport is if you committed a crime. It's clear as day. I've been to 18 foreign countries and no one ever "kept" that is, "witheld" my passport. Maybe Korea "asked" some of you to keep it or a hagwon) but it is not the law. I'm done with this--look up the law if you can't understand this. No one ever has to "surrender" their passport to any foreign govt. unless they comitted a crime. I'm done folks, I have to teach in 5 mintes. Believe whatever you want. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: On requested Documents: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
American, sick, working without a proper visa, no NHIC, no passport in hand and the hospital refused to treat her.
No different than any US hospital if you don't have proof of insurance, legal status in the country and/or ability to pay.
Reciprocity. |
I take issue with the bolded comment. It is the law in the United States that a hospital cannot turn away a patient in an emergency. To do so would make everyone involved criminally liable. This fact is a huge part of the illegal immigration argument - illegal immigrants can't get insurance and so they cost us a lot of money because they always go to the emergency room for routine illnesses.
I know you're not an American ttompatz, but this is just... borderline offensive? |
Actually, I am a dual by birth - and I worked in Phoenix for a decade as an SAP/ERP consultant as well.
I wouldn't have made the comment but my Aunt recently suffered this SAME experience in Seattle.
I personally had similar experiences in Phoenix (and I had insurance but it wasn't a hospital that was on my HMO list).
The ONLY exceptions would be the "county" hospitals who treat first and look for the cash later and I am not sure how they treat illegal migrants (treat and arrest or treat and release).
| leopard7 wrote: |
I don't know how I can make this any clearer: I came to Korea through a recruiter, like everyone else.
1) I went to the Korean Consulate in Chicago, gave them my documents, transferred them to a hagwon owner,
2). Came to Korea, then went to immigration, showed all my documents including my passport, CRC, degree, did a drug test at the hospital, etc.
3) But Immigration never "held" my passport, they copied it, processed the info, and then about 2.5 months later I received my E-2 visa. |
Either you truly have no idea what you are talking about, have missed out a LOT of important detail in the interests of brevity or worse, you are a troll and a liar.
In any case, your advice is flat out wrong.
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leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: Reply to message: |
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| Obviously, you can't read. If you can read, then try the U.S. Embassy website and lookup: "passport" and the laws regarding it. I can see you are a bored kid with no social life who likes to come on other peoples' posts and start stupid arguments, since you can't "create" any of your own posts. Sorry your social life is so pathetic (hint: maybe it's due to "personality" issues). I hope you can get a life. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Reply to message: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| Obviously, you can't read. If you can read, then try the U.S. Embassy website and lookup: "passport" and the laws regarding it. I can see you are a bored kid with no social life who likes to come on other peoples' posts and start stupid arguments, since you can't "create" any of your own posts. Sorry your social life is so pathetic (hint: maybe it's due to "personality" issues). I hope you can get a life. |
How about you provide the specific citation to back up YOUR claim?
I'll offer up this -
Title 22, Chapter 4 of the US Code pertains to passports and there is nothing in there to back you up.
Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 75 of the US code pertains to Crimes relating to passports and visas and there is nothing in there to back you up.
I am holding in my hand my US passport. I've read it cover to cover. There is nothing in there stating that you shouldn't turn it over to authorities of a foreign country.
So - I'm not calling you a "bored kid with no social life" nor am I calling you a "troll and a liar". But I've backed up the argument with "law, not opinion." How about you? Call or fold? |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Reply to message: |
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| leopard7 wrote: |
| Obviously, you can't read. If you can read, then try the U.S. Embassy website and lookup: "passport" and the laws regarding it. I can see you are a bored kid with no social life who likes to come on other peoples' posts and start stupid arguments, since you can't "create" any of your own posts. Sorry your social life is so pathetic (hint: maybe it's due to "personality" issues). I hope you can get a life. |
ROFLMAO! Yeah, clearly Ttom doesn't know what he's talking about, Leopard7! He's only, like, the guru of accurate information, and one of the very few posters that pretty much EVERYONE with more than three brain cells takes seriously...guess that tells us where you fall....
...though honestly, I am surprised you rankled him. I guess even the most patient folks have a breaking point.... |
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