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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
Would you have come to Richard Mannington's aid? Or would you walk away, while he died, to preserve your "character". |
If I had the power to actually save him, of course I would come to his aid, even if that meant having to wound or even unfortunately kill his assailants. Immediate defense of the innocent is one of the rare situations in which killing another human being acceptable. That's a far cry, though, from just going around shooting rioters and looters whose crimes go no further than general disorder and the destruction of private property. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Fox, what painting is your avatar?
I looked through my 903 file art collection and couldn't find it...I'm guessing its by maybe Bartolomeo Manfredi or some Italian Caravaggisti? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Fox, what painting is your avatar?
I looked through my 903 file art collection and couldn't find it...I'm guessing its by maybe Bartolomeo Manfredi or some Italian Caravaggisti? |
It's Jacob wrestling the Angel, painted by Alexander Louis Leloir. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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This clip has been circulating the web, and I thought it encapsulated the "scumbag" mentality of the rioters pretty well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| It is contemptible to make these tired class-warfare excuses for them. |
I think it is a class war basically. Class is much more of a divider in the UK than race.
You have the apparently ineffectual mayor Boris Jonson with his plummy eton accent and life of hereditary priveledge, vs hundreds of thousands of commoners raised in the gutter who feel that the system is rigged against them.
Yes I agree that anyone can make it in UK society if they really really want to.
The point is though, it takes people at the bottom 100 times more effort to make it.. than it takes those at the top. Its the inequality, and the gap is widening. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The point is though, it takes people at the bottom 100 times more effort to make it.. |
I'm not sure if this is true. It seems that a lot of not particularly well-off children of immigrants, who may attend inner city schools, end up going to university and on to successful careers. They have a stable family life, and their parents believe in the value of education.
But I agree with you that inequality is a serious problem. One answer to this would be the reintroduction of grammar schools and technical schools in the poorest areas of the country. Many middle class leftists remain resolutely opposed to this idea. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| But I agree with you that inequality is a serious problem |
"So long as the gap is smaller, they'd rather the poor were poorer"
Mrs T explains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw
What matters is the levels. The gap is all but irrelevant. Alleviating poverty is highly desirable; alleviating inequality is nugatory. If I had my way, I would wave a magic wand and render everyone rich, but rendering everybody equal or close to equal wouldn't concern me in the slightest, and nor should it. Poverty and inequality are as unrelated as anything could be; and to suggest otherwise is to ally oneself with the pitiable fallacies of Zero Sum. Remember, Big Verne, that those in favor of ridding the world of inequality are offended not by poverty, but by affluence. They'd rather the poor were poorer, provided that the rich were less rich.
Nothing could be more pernicious than the fallacies of egalitarianism. Social mobility is not a good in itself, because, ideally, everyone would be rich, well-educated and free, and there would be no social mobility. Since there are people who are poor and hopeless wretches, it is desirable that they be elevated, not because social mobility is good, but because being poor and hopeless is bad.
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Friends, let us smash the welfare state. Never has there been a more apposite time than now to do what ever it takes, going to great pains if necessary, to get the parasitic poor off their arses and on their bikes!
But, crucially, neither must we tolerate the idle rich - the landowning toffs, the Monarchy, the Church of England, and of course state support for utterly and shamelessly prodigal bankers. May Big Government crumble and may good old-fashioned, sink-or-swim capitalism make a comeback indeed! May Britain once again be a light unto the nations - Mother of the Free - and may the nightmare of social democracy be swiftly forgotten. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Friends, let us smash the welfare state. |
Government welfare has served Britain well for 100 years. Why the sudden urge to eliminate it?
| Quote: |
| Never has there been a more apposite time than now to do what ever it takes, going to great pains if necessary, to get the parasitic poor off their arses and on their bikes! |
You're assuming that jobs exist for everyone. That is clearly not the case.
You're also assuming that things like racial and regional discrimination, the class system and so on do not exist, and that everything is an entirely fair level playing field for everyone.
| Quote: |
| But, crucially, neither must we tolerate the idle rich - the Church of England |
Funny u mention that, because prior to the introduction of government welfare, it was the church of england that mostly provided welfare to the nation through its networks of parishes. If anyone was in need, they went to the church. In fact many hospitals were sponsored and run by churches in the 18th century.
| Quote: |
| may the nightmare of social democracy be swiftly forgotten. |
What do you suggest as an alternative i wonder.
Maybe something like Korea, where the traditional extended family system is so strong that they are able to look after their sick, elderly and unemployed without having to ask for government assistance.
Where every eldest son is tied down looking after his ageing parents, and every unemployed bum can expect to sponge off his siblings and cousins indefinitely. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Government welfare has served Britain well for 100 years. Why the sudden urge to eliminate it? |
Oh dear. Somebody has obviously never read The Welfare State We're In
| Julius wrote: |
| You're assuming that jobs exist for everyone. That is clearly not the case. |
I assume you haven't visited Broken Britain for some considerable time?
If there's a toilet to clean, there's a job. If there's a piece of rubbish on the pavement, there's a job. If there's a punter awaiting service, there's a job. So long as any human needs remain unsatisfied, there are jobs aplenty.
If, in the 19th century, there was 2% unemployment, it would have been considered a crisis; now, it would be considered cause for celebration.
"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it." (Norman Tebbit)
| Nautilus wrote: |
| You're also assuming that things like racial and regional discrimination, the class system and so on do not exist, and that everything is an entirely fair level playing field for everyone |
Ever heard of Jim On'Neill, chairman of asset management at Goldman Sachs? He is of decidedly humble origins - with a very heavy Manchester accent - and worked his arse off all the way to the very top.
Ever heard of Daymond John (African-American multi-millionaire)?
Ever heard of Lakshmi Mittal (Indian steel tycoon who grew up on a slum)?
There could be nothing more apposite to the alleviation of poverty than good old-fashioned capitalism.
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Funny u mention that, because prior to the introduction of government welfare, it was the church of england that mostly provided welfare to the nation through its networks of parishes. If anyone was in need, they went to the church. In fact many hospitals were sponsored and run by churches in the 18th century. |
That's as maybe, but nothing disgusts me more than belief in a higher power than the self.
| Junior wrote: |
| What do you suggest as an alternative i wonder. |
Why must one have an alternative?
If I correctly observe that the house is burning down - yet I am incompetent as to what should replace it - does my architectural incompetence negate my assertion that the house is, indeed, burning down?
The disintegration of social democracy is all but inevitable.
But much, much more interestingly than any of this, why do you post with 5 accounts? |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| If there's a toilet to clean, there's a job. If there's a piece of rubbish on the pavement, there's a job. If there's a punter awaiting service, there's a job. So long as any human needs remain unsatisfied, there are jobs aplenty. |
Actually many more jobs have become automated..
| Dimitri Stylianos wrote: |
| If, in the 19th century, there was 2% unemployment, it would have been considered a crisis; now, it would be considered cause for celebration. |
That was before computers and other machines that have streamlined the efficiency of many businesses.
| DirtySanchez wrote: |
| Ever heard of Daymond John (African-American multi-millionaire)? |
Giving extreme examples of abnormally talented entrepreneurs etc is irrelevant.
Thats like pointing to Hussein bolt and saying "If he ran the 100m in 9:58 then there's no excuse for you not to!!
Its just dumb.
The fact is the welfare state looks after the disadvantaged in society. Those disadvantaged by accent, upbringing, disability, culture, age, looks, whatever that renders them less desirable in the job market. Society is prejudiced, and jobs are limited. It is obvious that in any society there are winners and losers. That will always be the case, everywhere you go, anywhere,
You seem to be saying that society sould kill off the bottom half. That makes you a nazi.
| Spinoza wrote: |
| That's as maybe, but nothing disgusts me more than belief in a higher power than the self. |
Even superheroes like yourself may find that you one day need a higher power. Or maybe even unemployment benefit or welfare of some sort.
| Quote: |
| But much, much more interestingly than any of this, why do you post with 5 accounts? |
What is interesting, is that a corrupt mod like yourself is apparently unable to read Ip adresses. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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ZIFA, bottom line is that welfare recipients earn more on the dole than do working people after paying taxes. The UK imports millions of third-worlders to work jobs that entitled, lazy UK natives refuse to do. Millions -- yes, millions -- of left-wing Britons are unjustly on the dole.
The UK is in dire need of computer programmers, IT specialists, doctors, nurses, engineers, cooks, senior caregivers, etc. But why study, when we can live a comfortable life on other people's money?
That's the problem wish socialism, which is coming home to roost. Sergio Stefanuto is 100% bang on. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Pat Condell, a Brit who does not vote labour/liberal democrat/green/communist/socialist etc, telling it the way it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAC0YSmK0g
A must watch. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| The fact is the welfare state looks after the disadvantaged in society. Those disadvantaged by accent, upbringing, disability, culture, age, looks, whatever that renders them less desirable in the job market. Society is prejudiced, and jobs are limited. It is obvious that in any society there are winners and losers. That will always be the case, everywhere you go, anywhere, |
It's all well and good saying how wonderful the welfare statist plague is. If we give people money, it should be very unsurprising that their standard of living improves. Unfortunately, it's extremely expensive: �112.5bn...year in, year out. If we add the plebs' state schools to the cost - which are so dire they do more to keep the poor poor than anything else - we're talking another �91.4bn. So call it �200bn. Inevitably, such a cost must cause peeple to become unemployed and require benefits - how absurd. Absurd consequences are what happens when moralists hold the needs of one party to be more pertinent than those of another.
Shame on those who subscribe to the politics of coercion and parasitism. Rest assured that I'll be doing my level best henceforth to deprive the state of my rightfully-accrued riches.
| ZIFA wrote: |
| You seem to be saying that society sould kill off the bottom half. That makes you a nazi. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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There's nobody more virtuous than the secular right |
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