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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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 Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| theloneleaf wrote: |
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| I think another problem is a lot of these day cares, the ones in apartments, or even little day cares are not monitored by the governments. |
Sure they are, where do you get that they're not? |
well if they are the rules and regulations are a joke.
And I asked one lady her owns one and she said a officer never came out to inspect the premise. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: Re: 5yr boy dies left in kindergarten bongo car. |
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| jackson7 wrote: |
| Koreadays wrote: |
you guys hear about the 5 year old boy who was left in a bongo car,?
the heat was 32 degree, and the teacher and driver left him in the car.
when the father came to pick up his son from school, the teacher said.
"no, your son didn't come to school today!!"
the father said.. "YA, you said goodbye to me when I put my son in your car!! don't you remember..???? the teacher then did the Korean. ohhhh really...ohhh ummmm .. the father then turned to the BONGO truck, ran to the truck, opened the bongo and found his son bleeding from the nose, and dead...
so who is to blame for this? |
I've seen some pretty interesting interpretations of the English language on Dave's, but this last sentence was what informed me of the OP's likely origin. OP, questions like these are often odd for those of us that don't come from blame societies (compelled to place blame in the case of any accident or even the corrupt president Roh's suicide, for example). For me it was this question of yours that seemed to be promoting a rocking of the boat, or a fishing (trolling) for desired negative responses. Furthermore, links to articles will in many cases help prevent you from becoming the target of flaming.
J7 |
So what, exactly, is wrong with blaming the responsible parties? If we don't find out why something tragic happened, we can't expect to prevent it in the future. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: |
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This thread is so.......Dave's.
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Lolimahro
Joined: 19 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Koreadays wrote: |
| theloneleaf wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think another problem is a lot of these day cares, the ones in apartments, or even little day cares are not monitored by the governments. |
Sure they are, where do you get that they're not? |
well if they are the rules and regulations are a joke.
And I asked one lady her owns one and she said a officer never came out to inspect the premise. |
Perhaps this may be true, but you can see on the front door of any daycare facility in Korea whether or not they have the certificate that shows they are an approved and licensed facility. You can also request to see their license or you can look them up online via the government website. It generally takes some digging to find quality care for your child no matter where you are. Making multiple visits to the center, talking to the teachers and directors multiple times, and testing the waters part-time are all ways a parent can make sure they've picked a good place to send their child during the day.
My son has been attending Korean daycare for 2 years and I have never had any problems. However, that's not to say that accidents don't happen or that the system couldn't be improved more. I, for one, would like to see a smaller child-to-teacher ratio in all classrooms. However, I've been pleased with the kindness and care the teachers have shown my son in contrast with my (albeit negative) experience in a U.S. daycare, where the teachers were less caring about the students and more caring about their paychecks.
Really, serious problems with kids in cars is a frequent occurrence in the United States. This is the first time I've even heard about it happening in Korea, but in the U.S. several times a year kids were left in cars and died of heat stroke or hypothermia. Heck, I even locked my parents out of the car (in Alaska during the winter time!) when I was about 2 or 3. My husband, I'm sure, has a similar story from his childhood. What takes a cake is this story from Minnesota in either 2008 or 2009: a 9-month-old baby was left in her carseat while the mom went into the gas station to pay for gas and in the meantime the car was stolen! The robber drove the car quite a ways before he realized there was a baby. I can't quite remember what happened next - I want to say he stopped the car and fled the scene, but it might have been brought back to the gas station. In the end I think mom and baby were ok. I bet she never left her baby in the car for "just a minute" again! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
This thread is so.......Dave's.
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And you drive-by comment is so... T-J 
I seem to recall you getting up in arms when people were commenting on the Korean school system without having kids in it... by any chance do you have kids in Kindergarten here?
I do, and can attest to the fact that I've found their focus on safety... "wanting". In fact, of the numerous kindergartens I visited, when I asked after the subject, they responded by saying "you're the first to ask those types of questions. Most parents care about our English program and such. No parents ask about that sort of stuff".
So, if you've had much better experiences with Korean kindergartens, perhaps you'd like to share and recommend some?
Or, are you just here to do another drive-by Dave's bashing as usual? |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: |
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How many Korean kindergartens have adequate fire safety procedures? Or care to have them in place?
How many Korean kindergartens conduct regular fire safety drills?
At the previous Kindy I worked at, the fire drill procedure was we all went up to the roof in an organized procession. What happens if there was a fire above us? Well, we didn't learn where to go next or where to congregate outside the building.
Oh, and we only did one fire drill throughout the year.
6 months into my new job at another Kindy and nothing has been discussed about fire safety procedures. Guess, it hasn't been scheduled yet for the firemen to come in yet. /snark |
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Koharski
Mod Team
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:53 am Post subject: |
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This will not turn into another TJ vs Captain Corea Battle of Insults. Take it PMs if you feel the need to communicate with each other.
Koharski |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
How many Korean kindergartens have adequate fire safety procedures? Or care to have them in place?
How many Korean kindergartens conduct regular fire safety drills?
At the previous Kindy I worked at, the fire drill procedure was we all went up to the roof in an organized procession. What happens if there was a fire above us? Well, we didn't learn where to go next or where to congregate outside the building.
Oh, and we only did one fire drill throughout the year.
6 months into my new job at another Kindy and nothing has been discussed about fire safety procedures. Guess, it hasn't been scheduled yet for the firemen to come in yet. /snark |
That's funny. I would presume that going to the roof in the case of a fire is a horrible idea. After all, fire does tend to go up. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
This thread is so.......Dave's.
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I was thinking the same thing back when it was just one page going one two...  |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Koharski wrote: |
This will not turn into another TJ vs Captain Corea Battle of Insults. Take it PMs if you feel the need to communicate with each other.
Koharski |
I certainly don't feel the need.
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
This thread is so.......Dave's.
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I was thinking the same thing back when it was just one page going one two... |
It's so Dave's because it is so predictable.
Korea haters, being the racists they are, will categorize everything about this tragedy as being symptomatic of Korea and Koreans.
The apologists come back with their "It happens everywhere so it's understandable if it happens here".
When in fact neither correct. The situation that led to this tragedy really has nothing to do with the individuals being Korean or the incident taking place in Korea. To say so again is prejudice, plain and simple. Also similar tragedies happening elsewhere makes this one no less a tragedy.
But this is Dave's and the number of threads that have followed this tired formula are too numerous to count and I'm sure countless more will follow. For the most part I find most threads entertaining. This one however in light of the subject matter I just find upsetting. How so many can be blind to what happened in their pursuit of hating or defending leaves me shaking my head.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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TJ, just to be clear, my argument is no that tragedies happen everywhere so no one is too blame.
It is that crap happens everywhere based on individual decisions.
At the end of the day these events remain tragedies and the pain the victims feel remains real.
The point is, these can not be prevented because it is impossible to account for every aspect of human behavior, errors, negligence.... |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Did not say you blamed society CC!
Was just discussing the issue from my perspective of things. Sorry if it came off as if I was implying you made it a social issue.
I too have seen many kindergartens and daycares in Korea where some situations were dangerous to kids (danger to varying levels). What I am saying is that this will happen everywhere, even if there are standards on the books. That to me is called unavoidable accidents.
The odds can perhaps be reduced. My life experiences tell me crap will invariably happen, no matter what.
Not to mention safety consciousness is quite relative and so very dependant on cultural norms, history and in many ways evolution of a place.
Car seats were nowhere to be seen in Canada when I was a kid, seatbelts were nearly never worn. Now both are the norm and widely used. Korea in that respect still has a different outlook as in relative time frame terms, cars are still a "new" thing on a mass scale. So to my eyes a child in a car without a car seat is dangerous. To Mr Kim over there it is as normal as it was to my dad when I was an infant. Therein lies the trap of snap shots and judgements we make that tend to be out of local perspective.
Still, I understand your concern and as parent of 2 who was rammed by a drunk driver with my family in the car, all I can tell you is you can try to minimize the risk but you really cannot eliminate it or control the actions of others.
My son broke two of his teeth while riding his bike a couple of years ago. He was wearing a helmet and was still on training wheels. All it took for it to happen was a second of distraction on my part while he was jutting around on the bike path at the park and he got into a small collision...crap happens!
the daycare where our friends kid broke his leg is a very good one and the daycare attendant is a good one too...it was an accident. It happens. |
Et voila. Your words above argue that Korean society is less safe as far as the use of seatbelts and, I'm guessing, kindergartens are concerned.
Congrats!
Last edited by WadRUG'naDoo on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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No worries Wad. That has been my point for YEARS.
However, I suspect you miss the deeper meaning of what I am saying here...the part about blanket judgement and lack of perspective...but no worries.  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
TJ, just to be clear, my argument is no that tragedies happen everywhere so no one is too blame.
It is that crap happens everywhere based on individual decisions.
At the end of the day these events remain tragedies and the pain the victims feel remains real.
The point is, these can not be prevented because it is impossible to account for every aspect of human behavior, errors, negligence.... |
Individual decisions, true... but is not the surrounding environment and culture/education a factor?
I mean, people decide to buckle up... as individuals, but there are other factors at play - Laws, enforcement of such laws, societal and economic pressures, etc...
To chalk it up to the individual ignores far too many factors.
If people keep leaving their kids in cars in front of casinos... THEY are to blame - of that I have no doubt. But come on, we all know that the lawmakers and community that chose to allow casinos to come in also made a choice.
I'm not about to say that one culture/country/people is better than another... no way. But when I have numerous Kindergarten directors telling me "you're the only one that asks that sort of question", then there is a divergence.
I dropped my daughter off at school a few weeks back... kissed her goodbye, and saw her walk into class. Usually there's someone at the main door to greet us. There wasn't. Usually her teacher closes the class door behind her... it stayed open.
I waited a few minutes, then took off my shoes to peek in. A dozen 4-5 year olds were running around the class in various forms of play.
No teacher.
I said 'hi', and started to shake hands and play with the ones that would have me.
20 minutes later a teacher came to get them for an 'event' downstairs (that they had been setting up).
I asked where the teacher was and apparently everyone was trying to set up the main gym for a guest speaker.
A guest speaker... for fooking 4 year olds!!??!?!
THIS had more priority than watching over the children? This had more priority than manning the front door??
To them, and many that I have encountered in this field, the 'special lessons' and such take precedence over (my belief of) the fundamentals of their job - that is to watch the kids. They are more concerned with pitching these specials... and of course, taking copious amounts of pictures of them, then focusing on more basic priorities.
Is this kindergarten an anomaly in Korea? Can we honestly say that this is abnormal here and not representative? Not in my experience, both as a father, a customer, and a teacher in them. I can go on and on about them from my experiences... and remember, this is the one I liked. You should have seen the one I pulled my girl out of.
So, you may call it an individual thing, others here want to say that this is just people complaining on Dave's... but read what I'm writing here... this is a father that is actually experiencing it. This is not some fly-by trolling attempt - this is actual. And I'm guessing that anybody with experience in Kindergartens here has seen similar. |
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