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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| daveeslcafe888 wrote: |
Thanks guys. I have an Ivy League degree in history. Thus, I'll probably wind up as an intel officer in either branch.
Are you sure quality of life isn't that much different in Army or Air Force? (I heard in Iraq and Afghanistan, Air Force had AC, while Army had tents).
Feel free for any of you to PM me, if you'd be willing to talk more.
Thanks |
You won't be an officer in the AF or Navy. Their ranks are flooded and DoD budgets are cutting back. AF and Navy only recruit officers from the currently enlisted, the military university, and ROTC programs. If you go one of those routes, you'll have to be an enlist for a few years (one full minimum contract) before you can drop a packet. Even then you'll have some serious competition. Most people with degrees (regardless of where they got them) end up as an E3 and then become non-coms.
Marines have a strict age restriction for officers. You have to be through boot and through officer school and full commissioned (this means clearing your security background check - which can take 12-18 months) all before your 28th birthday. Physical fitness matters more to them rather than character issues or intelligence. Boot is hard. Officer school for them is even worse. Unlike the other branches, you can not be a reservist right out of the gate (if that's what you're looking for.) All newly commissioned USMC officers must serve at least 3 years active duty that begins the day after they are commissioned. This means your time spent in boot, ait, ocs, and however many months it took to get your clearance, don't count towards your active duty contract. The corps wants career officers, so that better be your plan if you go there.
The Army is probably your (and my) best bet. However, it's becoming harder to be commissioned these days. Draw down in Iraq and soon Afghanistan plus the shrinking of the defense budget mean the Army has to be a bit more picky as to who it lets in. They've already lowered the age limit from 42 to 35 for active and reserve. Guard is still 42 though. To get an Army commission you have to clear your security check and go through basic. At MEPS they will be able to tell you if they will grant you a temporary security clearance so you can go straight from basic to OCS. That means you will probably get cleared. If they don't give your clearance, you have the option of continuing on as an E4 and trying again later or leaving and the contract will be void. But good luck switching to AF or somewhere else if you opt out. More than likely you'll be turned down. Getting into Intel isn't as easy you think. It's a very popular job area and even those that qualify usually get put on a waiting list. Most enlists need a classified or secret clearance to get into intel. However, every officer above 1lt needs top secret or code word clearance. So, if they think you wont be able to get that high, they probably wont let you in intel to begin with as it would essentially be a waist of time and resources. They'd rather train and prepare someone that can be an intel capt and more.
Also, remember, with Army you're not guaranteed any of your choices for jobs. It depends first on what the army needs. You may want intel and even be qualified for it. But if they need a quartermaster or logistics officer, they'll stick you there. Everyone I've talked to said most newly commissioned officers will get their 3rd choice of jobs if they're lucky. Every opts for the cool jobs, which is why so few actually get them. And West Point grads get top pick. ROTC comes next. And the OCS crowd fills in the blanks. So with numbers shrinking as is, saying "i'll probably be an intel officer in any branch" is bold statement.
Also, the number one thing that kills a security clearance is your credit rating. If you owe too much debt, be it school or credit cards or anything, the army says that makes you susceptible to coercion and bribery. Have a small amount of debt that is not in good standing hurts too. Living abroad affects it. Being too heavily involved with politics. Being on record or being too public counts. The biggest vacancy in the military now are non commissioned officers. So if they find any reason to bump you down, they will. Again, a lot more people end up as E4s than you'd think.
If you go Guard or Rerserve, you have to consider location and timing as well. You may be qualified, but if there are no officer posts open, then they wont send you to OCS. You'll go to AIT, and have to drop a packet later. Also, getting commissioned through Guard or AIT takes a while. There are three commissioning schools for OCS. The state plan takes 18 months because you only go one weekend a month, two weeks a year. You're considered a cadet that whole time and get no officer benefits. The federal plan takes a few months full time, but only happens twice a year and spots get filled fast. And the normal route for active duty. Guards and Reserve can go, but only if there are open spots. It's not an unlimited number thing. There are only so many places that can be filled at once and again, active duty enlists that are already on the inside get first dibs.
So take all this into consideration. This is just a bit of what I've compiled through my own research. You sound a bit too cocky for your britches. Don't just assume and Ivy league degree and your good looks is going to get you on easy street. You also need to be very physically fit if you want in OCS. If you don't know basic training run time, push up standards, and sit up standards (as well as body fat %) get started now. They expect future officers to score near 300 on the PT test. Running two miles in 13:00 min and then dropping to hit 77 push ups and 82 sit ups with just a few minutes of rest isn't as easy as it looks. |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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The tents also have A/C.
Most people end up in some sort of a building unless you end up as an Infantry or Engineer officer (more than likely Combat Engineer).
Engineer officers (even combat ones) are usually attached to a major engineer unit with construction elements, their job is to clear out an area from IED's/bombs and build something.
In Afghan my unit lived in sectioned off "tents" but we had A/C, and we ended up building airstrips.
There were members of the AF that slept in our "tent" as well...So no, the quality of life isn't much different. |
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daveeslcafe888
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, guys.
1. If it helps you understand where I'm coming from, I very much regret the time I spent at my Ivy League school. Thus, I don't want to make the same decision mistakes, if I join the services.
2. Basically, it sounds like either service is comparable. I should just worry about getting my foot-in-the-door (probably as an army officer).
3. Long-term, do each have the same trajectory for success? (i.e. being able to get a lot of education, get exit opportunities, etc.)?
Thanks |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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weso1 is spot on.
My sister had a BA, high GPA with political science, wanted to get into the CIA eventually, trained mighty damn hard physically after college to get into the Air Force OCS, took some tests, had some interviews, filled out some paperwork, crossed her t's and dotted her i's...in the end, she didn't make the cut.
So yeah, the Navy and the Air Force are super competitive when it comes to being selected fro OCS. The only thing tougher to get into? Flight school. Whatever branch you're in, the competition is steep to fly anything. Better have something like a chemistry or electrical engineering degree with a 4.0 GPA. The irony is that in the civilian world you make far more money being an Air Traffic Controller or Aircraft Mechanic than you do a commercial pilot, so take that into consideration.
Coast Guard is the MOST selective branch. The fewest positions and the most applicants, bar none. Unless you're afraid of water or are a horrible swimmer, this seems to be the way to go. Better than any other branch of service or federal branch of law enforcement, IMHO. No wars, no deployment overseas (with some exceptions), and if you're not combating drug dealers on the Florida coast, you probably won't ever be shot at. |
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jamesd
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot about the field commission option.
"When my platoon leader(2LT) was shot dead during a heat of the battle, I(NCO) was ordered by my CO to take charge. A few days later, I was awarded the field commission by a General for leading an offensive against a company size element(100+ enemy KIA)..."  |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| daveeslcafe888 wrote: |
Thanks, guys.
1. If it helps you understand where I'm coming from, I very much regret the time I spent at my Ivy League school. Thus, I don't want to make the same decision mistakes, if I join the services.
2. Basically, it sounds like either service is comparable. I should just worry about getting my foot-in-the-door (probably as an army officer).
3. Long-term, do each have the same trajectory for success? (i.e. being able to get a lot of education, get exit opportunities, etc.)?
Thanks |
When it comes to education, you're going to be pretty much stuck with online programs regardless of which branch you join. Some bases have local CC's around them, but for graduate school in the military, your best bet is online courses.
Exiting and continuing in your field of work is becoming harder and harder (but seems to reflect the economy) You'll have a bit of an easier time getting a nice, cushy GS position depending on your line of work, how long you performed it, and how good you were at it.
Or there's the retirement option, after 20 years you can request to retire, and collect about 75% of your monthly pay. As an officer, that's not a bad chunk of change. Especially once you make it to MAJ or LTC. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a question for a few of the guys that were inside or might have been recruiters. How might the military look if I were to take some of the basic training courses offered at PMCs like Blackwater? I know they teach courses on pistol and carbine AR handling as well as some tactical courses for civilians. Do you think the Army would flag this as a threat or see it as someone taking initiative? |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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More than likely it wouldn't make much of a difference.
When you go through basic (whether its BCT or OBC) they'll tell you to forget all that fancy shooting trash and teach you how to shoot the right way.
I remember my DS's complaining about hunters and people experienced with weapons because they would basically ignore all the training. They thought they already knew better. However, that seems more like a personal issue from an instructor's point of view. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| I have a friend who left Korea last year and decided to join the military and he's in Army boot camp right now. His experience is right in line with some of the things that weso1 said here. His rank will be that of specialist. That's sorta like a private, only with an education. |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
| I have a friend who left Korea last year and decided to join the military and he's in Army boot camp right now. His experience is right in line with some of the things that weso1 said here. His rank will be that of specialist. That's sorta like a private, only with an education. |
Or a private who spent 18 months in the Army. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| The difference between Specialist and Corporal is simply the Military Operational Specialty. The Army is the only one of the US Armed Forces that stll maintains a difference at that pay grade. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| The difference between Specialist and Corporal is simply the Military Operational Specialty. The Army is the only one of the US Armed Forces that stll maintains a difference at that pay grade. |
Yeah, as I've heard a corporal is more likely to have the command of a squad and be in charge of a few guys and a specialist will have an important job to do but won't be in charge of anyone. So even though they're the same, kind of technically a specialist falls slightly lower than a corporal in the chain of command. Either way, being a specialist isn't a bad gig. You're above the privates, so at least you don't get the really lame work to do and you just have to hang out at that rank for a year or so and you can go to Sergeant school and get yourself some proper stripes. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
| I have a question for a few of the guys that were inside or might have been recruiters. How might the military look if I were to take some of the basic training courses offered at PMCs like Blackwater? I know they teach courses on pistol and carbine AR handling as well as some tactical courses for civilians. Do you think the Army would flag this as a threat or see it as someone taking initiative? |
I don't know about the Army but us mentally stable people would see it as damn creepy. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
I know there are a few prior service on these forums, myself included. What sort of advice are you looking for?
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LOL. You're one of those military idiots that got sucked in by a Korean chick? That's hilarious. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| I don't know about the Army but us mentally stable people would see it as damn creepy. |
| PastorYoon wrote: |
| LOL. You're one of those military idiots that got sucked in by a Korean chick? That's hilarious. |
Well, no love for the military from you guys, huh?
A question though... just how exactly do you two dimwits think it's possible you can live and teach in Korea? This country wouldn't even exist if it weren't for men and women from several nations (probably from whatever country you come from) putting on a uniform and fighting for it.
You two are the types of left wing pantie waist hippie's that give honest liberals like myself a bad name. Our entire way of life depends on people sacrificing their lives, so that the greater population wont have to. But you'd rather spit on them rather than tell them thank you. You know, I really wish NK would invade. I wish they would march their million man army right to your neighborhood just so I can hear your elitist holier-than-thou-art crybaby mouths beg for someone to come save you.
You literally make me sick. I pray to god you're not American. I don't think I could stomach knowing someone from my own country would speak that way about our soldiers. |
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