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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: legal to rescind a contract if documents aren't early enough |
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I recently received this very shocking letter from a school which I thought was contractually obligated to be my future employer:
"We have candidates that have documents ready. I think we can wait until the end of August, but no longer, because of the time it takes to process the visa and be ready for Sept 19th training. Sept 12th and 13th are national holidays that will delay work with the immigration office and embassy abroad, so I hope you understand the campuses situation."
Upon reading the forum entries on the apostille process, I am very concerned. My documents were received on Aug 10th, with a Fedex waybill and envelope. I had not been previously informed of this limitation on my employment. Is this legal? Is this the behavior of a very large operation which is to be trusted? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: legal to rescind a contract if documents aren't early en |
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| cburst wrote: |
I recently received this very shocking letter from a school which I thought was contractually obligated to be my future employer:
"We have candidates that have documents ready. I think we can wait until the end of August, but no longer, because of the time it takes to process the visa and be ready for Sept 19th training. Sept 12th and 13th are national holidays that will delay work with the immigration office and embassy abroad, so I hope you understand the campuses situation."
Upon reading the forum entries on the apostille process, I am very concerned. My documents were received on Aug 10th, with a Fedex waybill and envelope. I had not been previously informed of this limitation on my employment. Is this legal? Is this the behavior of a very large operation which is to be trusted? |
If you meant that your documents were received by the FBI on Aug. 10 you won't be able to be in Korea before XMAS.
Can they do it = yes.
Can you sue = yes.
Can you win in an American court = probably, yes.
Is it enforceable in Korea = no.
Can you force them to take you = no.
Can you sue in Korea and win = no.
They are on a schedule. If you can't make it you will be replaced (it appears as though you have been).
If you don't have your documents in hand you won't be able to make it (hazards of lining up a job abroad before you are ready to travel).
You can't work without a visa. You can't force them to sponsor you.
You can't get a visa without a sponsor.
Find a new job, there are lots of them out there.
This isn't the litigious states of America.
Side note: it is PEAK hiring in China right now and you should be able to land a decent job with benefits and an OK salary and won't need to wait for the apostille on your documents.
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Last edited by ttompatz on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rayray123
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I had something similar happen. I was "hired", I was just waiting for the apostille for my FBI cbc check so I could send in my documents. My recruiter kept asking me about it and telling me to send it as soon as I could. When I sent it in I was told the school couldn't wait any longer and had hired someone else. |
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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: wow |
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| ok, that was a rude awakening. i'm kinda set on korea for a number of reasons. also, this is a very large school with numerous campuses. should i ask to be placed later? should i just ditch them altogether because i find this behavior disgraceful? |
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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: also |
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| is it physically possible to go down to d.c., get my documents, and then submit them in person? |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: wow |
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| cburst wrote: |
| ok, that was a rude awakening. i'm kinda set on korea for a number of reasons. also, this is a very large school with numerous campuses. should i ask to be placed later? should i just ditch them altogether because i find this behavior disgraceful? |
Their behavior isn't disgraceful 
You didn't get the documents in on time. Signing contracts just means you are filling out PART of the paperwork, PART of the paperwork. It's not like signing a contract in the US where you don't need all these documents. You just fill out a job application, hand them your resume, and then proceed to the interview.
If the school is ready to replace you without talking to you, then it says something about the position, it's not going to matter. It's like going into a store to buy nike shoes and finding out the store doesn't have your size. Go to another store, get them there. No friggin big deal man.
Go with a recruiter when you have your documents. Simple, really that simple. Don't promise to work after you get the documents.
| Quote: |
| Side note: it is PEAK hiring in China right now and you should be able to land a decent job with benefits and an OK salary and won't need to wait for the apostille on your documents. |
It may be the peak time for teachers to get ready, but I have been monitoring job offers here in China since April with a very close eye. The actual offers are no different now than they were then. The pay is the same and I see no increase in better offers.
It's actually been clouded because recruiters will put 2 offers which are titled the same. When you look at the details, one for example had Beijing in the title for both, but when you look at the details the location is actually Taiyuan for the higher paying job and only 5,000 RMB for the Beijing one.
Because they have one offer for Beijing which is crap, they think they can also advertise a higher paying job in a very different location. The Chinese recruiters are not like Korean recruiters. When I spoke to Korean recruiters and they had a Gwangju offer, they would advertise it as Gwangju, not Seoul. I am not saying Gwangju or Taiyuan in China are bad places to live, but if that is not what you want, then at least with the Korean recruiter you can pick another. With the Chinese recruiters they get you on the phone and completely lie to you.
It is peak season, but that doesn't mean you will get good offers. Be very careful.
Last edited by koreatimes on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:46 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i don't mean to be rude, but the question is not an inability to get them in on time, but the inability to get them in early enough to meet an unspecified deadline. i believe that the failure to specify a deadline until one week before said deadline constitutes disgraceful behavior. do you disagree? |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| inability to get them in early enough to meet an unspecified deadline. |
You are going to go nowhere with this logic. Are you saying if you knew a specified deadline, you would have the documents earlier? If so, GET YOUR DOCUMENTS EARLIER!!!
You do nothing for yourself by imagining things. |
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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| again, i don't mean to be rude, but if i had known about the deadline, i probably would have started preparing a contingency plan sooner. does that logic satisfy you? |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| i probably would have started preparing a contingency plan sooner. does that logic satisfy you? |
You mean you would have planned School B? Again, how does this change the current situation? By saying you could have another school, you are still admitting that you can't get your documents in on time for School A. Therefore you will try to get School B (which you can't get now because you don't have your documents!!!  )
How is this different than now and what you can do now? You can still get School B now. Your contingency plan is like saying, well if I can't get enough sleep now, I'll sleep later. I wish I had known I couldn't sleep now, I would have planned tomorrow to sleep.
Regardless where you draw the line, you are going to sleep at some point. Regardless when the documents come, you will be able to get School B.
School A's actions have no bearing on you getting your documents. Stop trying to place blame where there isn't.
Find School B when you get your documents.
Last edited by koreatimes on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rayray123
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| In my case I just wish I had been told that they hired someone else before I sent in the documents. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| rayray123 wrote: |
| In my case I just wish I had been told that they hired someone else before I sent in the documents. |
They verified they didn't have a teacher before you sent your documents? You called them up and said, "Hey, I have spent 6 months getting my documents and now I have them. Is the job still available or have you found another teacher? Perhaps one already in Korea?"
If you didn't, then consider this a lesson. Teachers in Korea will get hired first, then outside teachers. Things like no airfare and transfer of visas make this more acceptable to employers. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cburst wrote: |
| i don't mean to be rude, but the question is not an inability to get them in on time, but the inability to get them in early enough to meet an unspecified deadline. i believe that the failure to specify a deadline until one week before said deadline constitutes disgraceful behavior. do you disagree? |
No, because if you just submitted your application for the CRC or appostille for the CRC you still have MONTHS to wait. It is NOT a matter of a few days.
Your contract should have had a start date on it. That DOES put a deadline on it. If anyone is likely to be in breach it will be you (unable to arrive on time).
They said that if you can accomplish the task by the end of the month, "I think we can wait until the end of August, but no longer," (a week or so) they can live with it. If you are going to take longer then they have other applicants who are ready NOW.
They need a body by the start of school. The students can't wait for you to get your *beep* in order, then wait for the visa process (another 3-4 weeks) and then wait for you to get on a plane.
Get your documents in order then start again. There is no shortage of jobs in ESL/EFL in Asia. There will be another one waiting for you when you are ready (around Thanksgiving if previous applications are any indication of the time it takes to deal with US government offices).
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rayray123
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| rayray123 wrote: |
| In my case I just wish I had been told that they hired someone else before I sent in the documents. |
They verified they didn't have a teacher before you sent your documents? You called them up and said, "Hey, I have spent 6 months getting my documents and now I have them. Is the job still available or have you found another teacher? Perhaps one already in Korea?"
If you didn't, then consider this a lesson. Teachers in Korea will get hired first, then outside teachers. Things like no airfare and transfer of visas make this more acceptable to employers. |
Yeah lesson learned. The recruiter told me the job was still available. Did he really think it was? Or did he just want to get a hold of my documents so I would be more likely to keep using him to find a job? |
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cburst
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: ok |
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| Noted. Back to my previous question: is it possible to go to d.c., get my previously mailed documents, and then submit them in person? |
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