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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, what's with that?
The biggest problem? There are so many problems how can any one be the biggest?
Korean teachers feel intimidated/threatened by the presence of NET's in the classroom.
Whether sub-conciously or overtly, many of them do their best to make sure the NET can't contribute anything useful.
They talk and talk about NET's not being fully trained teachers; but when they do get someone who does have full accreditation back home, they do the utmost to undermine, sabotage and eventually drive that teacher out of the system.
Unless they are going to allow NET's to actually run their own classes,
they may as well cancel the program. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| You guys are assuming the end product of public schooling is -- and should be -- fluency in English. |
It's 100% not. I give it to you.
However, English is a dominant language. Any school is going to wonder what more they can do to enhance the education system. That's how our jobs were created.
I have yet to see an adequate textbook which could replace a foreigner like math or science. Right now, our importance is only being questioned based on lack of funds, not necessity.
When there is money, they are going to hire again.
If you want to paint a picture there is an end, then by all means leave the ESL world and find something else. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You guys are assuming the end product of public schooling is -- and should be -- fluency in English. |
It's 100% not. I give it to you.
However, English is a dominant language. Any school is going to wonder what more they can do to enhance the education system. That's how our jobs were created.
I have yet to see an adequate textbook which could replace a foreigner like math or science. Right now, our importance is only being questioned based on lack of funds, not necessity.
When there is money, they are going to hire again.
If you want to paint a picture there is an end, then by all means leave the ESL world and find something else. |
I've already left. My interest is to convince everyone that everything in Korean ESL is roses and lollipops until I get a full-time position! haha.
The Korean economy is booming so these position cuts are not purely about funding cutback, it's more like trimming the fat. However I don't disagree with you. As long as people are inherently motivated to learn English and there's money available, there will be demand for native speakers but the nature of the demand and the expectations will change. GEPIK was an experiment not a rite of passage, and it's done like dinner. Other similar programs are on their way out.
I think what SteelRails said a few posts back makes sense. School boards and individual schools will draw their own conclusions about how useful having NETs were, and the schools that have excess money and a use for them will continue to hire them. The big difference will be that the school will be responsible for the NET, and making proper use of them. Other schools will feel the money is best allocated elsewhere. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Here's my take of this whole situation. Viewers' discretion is advised.
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December 2010
Lee Myung-bak: Well?
Secretary of the Blue House: Sir, we need to pass the 2011 budget bill ASAP. Do it fast and everything will be okay for your party's budget spending of the whole country. You are a CEO businessperson. Act like one.
Lee Myung-bak: You're right. Totally agree with your sentiment. I'll tell the GNP strongmen that we have to illegally pass this bill at all cost.
January 2011
Politicians of the opposition parties: WT*! You blew up the whole national budget for public schools!
GNP politicians: So? Your problem is?
Politicians of the opposition parties: What about the kids?
GNP politicians: They'll get over it. There are hagwon for them, You can get the municipal taxes for the public schools if you try it very hard like those kids. Those dumb school officials wouldn't need to hire fresh full-time Korean teachers for this year. I have made things everything better for everyone. Worship us.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Hell no.
GNP politicians: We had the president's full support. Don't say he's a corrupted leader. Just be quiet and act silly for our amusement.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Think of the kids.
GNP politicians: No.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Why would you do this?
GNP politicians: Innocent kids are against our business-first policies. Don't you ever question us.
July 2011
Officials in the Ministry of Education: OK. We will definitely defund GEPIK and maybe EPIK. What can we do? Parents are so pissed off right now. Keep encouraging private education at all cost.
August 2011
NETs: We're doomed. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
Here's my take of this whole situation. Viewers' discretion is advised.
-----
December 2010
Lee Myung-bak: Well?
Secretary of the Blue House: Sir, we need to pass the 2011 budget bill ASAP. Do it fast and everything will be okay for your party's budget spending of the whole country. You are a CEO businessperson. Act like one.
Lee Myung-bak: You're right. Totally agree with your sentiment. I'll tell the GNP strongmen that we have to illegally pass this bill at all cost.
January 2011
Politicians of the opposition parties: WT*! You blew up the whole national budget for public schools!
GNP politicians: So? Your problem is?
Politicians of the opposition parties: What about the kids?
GNP politicians: They'll get over it. There are hagwon for them, You can get the municipal taxes for the public schools if you try it very hard like those kids. Those dumb school officials wouldn't need to hire fresh full-time Korean teachers for this year. I have made things everything better for everyone. Worship us.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Hell no.
GNP politicians: We had the president's full support. Don't say he's a corrupted leader. Just be quiet and act silly for our amusement.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Think of the kids.
GNP politicians: No.
Politicians of the opposition parties: Why would you do this?
GNP politicians: Innocent kids are against our business-first policies. Don't you ever question us.
July 2011
Officials in the Ministry of Education: OK. We will definitely defund GEPIK and maybe EPIK. What can we do? Parents are so pissed off right now. Keep encouraging private education at all cost.
August 2011
NETs: We're doomed. |
Your name says it all.
The President's platform in 2007 was to do away with hogwans.
The PROVINCIAL government cut the funding.
The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
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OMGtrev
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The PROVINCIAL government cut the funding.
The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
According to what? |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| OMGtrev wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The PROVINCIAL government cut the funding.
The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
According to what? |
First one - The newspaper.
Second one - The students taking the teachers appointment exam this fall. There are more of them taking it because the districts are hiring more, so the chances of passing are higher, coupled with the fact that they changed the first stage to pass/fail. But, if you go back over the past three years and check the papers, you can piece together the whole story. The rules for English teachers changed, many are retiring and they are upping the hiring of them to both replace the retiring ones and increase the overall numbers. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The rules for English teachers changed, many are retiring and they are upping the hiring of them to both replace the retiring ones and increase the overall numbers. |
You can only occupy one space. Which is it? Are these young lads and lassies replacing native English speaking teachers or the Korean staff? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| OMGtrev wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The PROVINCIAL government cut the funding.
The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
According to what? |
First one - The newspaper.
Second one - The students taking the teachers appointment exam this fall. There are more of them taking it because the districts are hiring more, so the chances of passing are higher, coupled with the fact that they changed the first stage to pass/fail. But, if you go back over the past three years and check the papers, you can piece together the whole story. The rules for English teachers changed, many are retiring and they are upping the hiring of them to both replace the retiring ones and increase the overall numbers. |
Percentages will probably be the same. So instead of fighting for 100 of 2000 spots, they'll be competing for 200 jobs of out of 4000 test takers. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| The word is that many GEPIK schools just found out that they will be shortchanged on their Sept 1 money from the province and from their cities that's supposed to cover their foreign teachers. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Second one - The students taking the teachers appointment exam this fall. There are more of them taking it because the districts are hiring more, so the chances of passing are higher, coupled with the fact that they changed the first stage to pass/fail. But, if you go back over the past three years and check the papers, you can piece together the whole story. The rules for English teachers changed, many are retiring and they are upping the hiring of them to both replace the retiring ones and increase the overall numbers. |
I wouldn't say that they would hire more teachers. Most of the public school teachers are annually-contracted with the least job benefits.
Let's be honest here. The biggest problem of the Korean public school system from a general Korean point of view is the huge decrease of officially-hired teachers for the past two years. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| JD_Tiberius wrote: |
The big problem Korea has is the social stigma attached to speaking any language other than Korean to Koreans
You might get two Koreans, who speak brilliant English. They marry, but they never try to practice their English each each other because its not considered socially acceptable for them to speak any language other than Korean(The Japanese are to blame for this). Nor do they try to teach their son or daughter any of their fantastic English. In a few years with little to no contact with foreigners, their English degrades to the point they feel they can't speak it anymore.
Now compare that with people from other countries. I know of some white New Zealanders who will talk to each other in Japanese just because they can. Koreans don't do this with their L2 language, socially they can't because of their history.
That is precisely why any English language programme that does not include foreign teachers is bound to fail. They need us in the system to essentially keep tabs on the Korean English teachers. Without us, the system they have been working so hard to attain for years, collapses like a deck of cards. |
You have a good point. Koreans don't practise english to eachother outside of class because it is stigmatisedto some degree. Almost viewed as unpatriotic.
If they do, it is only to bond together by ridiculing the foreign language.
Korea will struggle with English so long as it retains general anti-foreign attitudes and xenephobia.
| Nathan Rutledge wrote: |
| The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
I assume they will systematically test and grade these new teachers classes to see if they are impacting the students english level.
(Something they did not do with the FT's, of course). |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| JD_Tiberius wrote: |
The big problem Korea has is the social stigma attached to speaking any language other than Korean to Koreans
You might get two Koreans, who speak brilliant English. They marry, but they never try to practice their English each each other because its not considered socially acceptable for them to speak any language other than Korean(The Japanese are to blame for this). Nor do they try to teach their son or daughter any of their fantastic English. In a few years with little to no contact with foreigners, their English degrades to the point they feel they can't speak it anymore.
Now compare that with people from other countries. I know of some white New Zealanders who will talk to each other in Japanese just because they can. Koreans don't do this with their L2 language, socially they can't because of their history.
That is precisely why any English language programme that does not include foreign teachers is bound to fail. They need us in the system to essentially keep tabs on the Korean English teachers. Without us, the system they have been working so hard to attain for years, collapses like a deck of cards. |
You have a good point. Koreans don't practise english to eachother outside of class because it is stigmatisedto some degree. Almost viewed as unpatriotic.
If they do, it is only to bond together by ridiculing the foreign language.
Korea will struggle with English so long as it retains general anti-foreign attitudes and xenephobia.
| Nathan Rutledge wrote: |
| The GPOE and SMOE are actually hiring a record number of new Korean English teachers for this next year. |
I assume they will systematically test and grade these new teachers classes to see if they are impacting the students english level.
(Something they did not do with the FT's, of course). |
I agree that Tiberius made an interesting point about their unwillingness to use and practice their English. However, I'm not as big as he is about the utility of practicing with each other (unless the counterparty is quite good, more advanced than you are.) You'll simply learn to make their mistakes.
So the Korean need/want to practice with NATIVE speakers is understandable. I feel exactly the same way. I don't want to practice French, or Chinese with non French or non Chinese (unless they're significantly better than me).
as to your point, I understand it, but I would argue that the NET effect on Students "english" as judged by Koreans (by their silly standard tests) isn't an effective gauge.
We're here to help them with conversational English while the tests are heavily focused on grammar. They're related, but quite different. Korean teachers 'teach' to the test. We do not. |
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