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| Who are you voting for/would you vote for? |
| Obama |
|
43% |
[ 37 ] |
| Romney |
|
4% |
[ 4 ] |
| Huckabee |
|
2% |
[ 2 ] |
| Trump |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Paul |
|
34% |
[ 29 ] |
| Other GOP Canbdidate |
|
2% |
[ 2 ] |
| Other Democrat Candidate |
|
3% |
[ 3 ] |
| Third party |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Other |
|
2% |
[ 2 ] |
| Not voting/don't want to vote |
|
5% |
[ 5 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 85 |
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| Author |
Message |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Rick Perry's Seven Constitutional Edits
| Quote: |
1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.
2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.
3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.
4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.
5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.
6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.
7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country. |
Some of the proposed amendments are bad. Others are downright terrible. |
Man some of these are bad and not well thought out at all... but some are outright stupid. I mean seriously, only a dumb person would advocate 2 and 3. |
How would #3 be stupid? That's the one that makes the most sense (since in the case of the 16th the constitution was amended very underhandedly just a few months prior to the Federal Reserve Act being passed). It is also the one the globalist stooge Perry would be least likely to actually follow through on. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
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|
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Rick Perry's Seven Constitutional Edits
| Quote: |
1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.
2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.
3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.
4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.
5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.
6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.
7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country. |
Some of the proposed amendments are bad. Others are downright terrible. |
Man some of these are bad and not well thought out at all... but some are outright stupid. I mean seriously, only a dumb person would advocate 2 and 3. |
How would #3 be stupid? That's the one that makes the most sense (since in the case of the 16th the constitution was amended very underhandedly just a few months prior to the Federal Reserve Act being passed). It is also the one the globalist stooge Perry would be least likely to actually follow through on. |
The gov't gets 60% of it's revenue from taxes. How do you plan on paying for things? You libertarians don't like debt either, do you? So I guess we have to ax treasury bills too? Great, now we have no income and thus, no government. Welcome to Somalia - a libertarian's wet dream. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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|
| weso1 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Rick Perry's Seven Constitutional Edits
| Quote: |
1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.
2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.
3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.
4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.
5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.
6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.
7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country. |
Some of the proposed amendments are bad. Others are downright terrible. |
Man some of these are bad and not well thought out at all... but some are outright stupid. I mean seriously, only a dumb person would advocate 2 and 3. |
How would #3 be stupid? That's the one that makes the most sense (since in the case of the 16th the constitution was amended very underhandedly just a few months prior to the Federal Reserve Act being passed). It is also the one the globalist stooge Perry would be least likely to actually follow through on. |
The gov't gets 60% of it's revenue from taxes. |
Sounds like 60% too much. Last time I checked the government has blown something like $5 trillion on the fake war on terror alone. The less money we give them, and instead spend amongst ourselves, the better.
| Quote: |
| How do you plan on paying for things? |
What does the government stealing my money at gunpoint have to do with my plans to pay for "things"? Are you suggesting my consumer demands could not be met without the government? Do elaborate. (And for the record I do concede the government is necessary to keep the basic rule of law in place).
| Quote: |
| You libertarians don't like debt either, do you? So I guess we have to ax treasury bills too? Great, now we have no income and thus, no government. |
You mean no corporatist/fascist leviathan state sucking the country dry. Nobody on the libertarian side is calling for "no government", just a drastically reduced one, operating within the confines of the constitution (not spending trillions on illegal wars and black ops, banker bailouts, corporate welfare, unsustainable ponzi scheme entitlement programs, and public works that could be met by the private sector if the demand were there).
| Quote: |
| Welcome to Somalia - a libertarian's wet dream. |
You mean an anarchist's wet dream. Libertarians are not anarchists.
And actually (since you brought it up) Somalia, while far from perfect (since it is run by warlords) has improved since it's government collapsed, has a fairly brisk informal economy (incl. the most developed telecommunications sector in the region) and is actually doing better than most other countries in SSA these days... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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|
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Rick Perry's Seven Constitutional Edits
| Quote: |
1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.
2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.
3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.
4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.
5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.
6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.
7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country. |
Some of the proposed amendments are bad. Others are downright terrible. |
Man some of these are bad and not well thought out at all... but some are outright stupid. I mean seriously, only a dumb person would advocate 2 and 3. |
How would #3 be stupid? That's the one that makes the most sense (since in the case of the 16th the constitution was amended very underhandedly just a few months prior to the Federal Reserve Act being passed). It is also the one the globalist stooge Perry would be least likely to actually follow through on. |
The gov't gets 60% of it's revenue from taxes. |
Sounds like 60% too much. Last time I checked the government has blown something like $5 trillion on the fake war on terror alone. The less money we give them, and instead spend amongst ourselves, the better.
| Quote: |
| How do you plan on paying for things? |
What does the government stealing my money at gunpoint have to do with my plans to pay for "things"? Are you suggesting my consumer demands could not be met without the government? Do elaborate. (And for the record I do concede the government is necessary to keep the basic rule of law in place).
| Quote: |
| You libertarians don't like debt either, do you? So I guess we have to ax treasury bills too? Great, now we have no income and thus, no government. |
You mean no corporatist/fascist leviathan state sucking the country dry. Nobody on the libertarian side is calling for "no government", just a drastically reduced one, operating within the confines of the constitution (not spending trillions on illegal wars and black ops, banker bailouts, corporate welfare, unsustainable ponzi scheme entitlement programs, and public works that could be met by the private sector if the demand were there).
| Quote: |
| Welcome to Somalia - a libertarian's wet dream. |
You mean an anarchist's wet dream. Libertarians are not anarchists.
And actually (since you brought it up) Somalia, while far from perfect (since it is run by warlords) has improved since it's government collapsed, has a fairly brisk informal economy (incl. the most developed telecommunications sector in the region) and is actually doing better than most other countries in SSA these days... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia |
Haha, man, I don't know where to start on this one. Are you actually advocating a Somali style system here? Maybe their economy is a bit better. But the biggest industry is probably pirating or drug smuggling. Libertarians are such goobers. If it was up to you, there would be nothing a business couldn't sell. Ron Paul would let companies sell heroin, as long as they can turn a profit. Just because you can make money on something, doesn't mean you should. Where do you draw the line? Hard drugs? Slavery? Kiddy porn? If you draw the line anywhere, then you aren't a total free market libertarian capitalist.
You want the gov't to exist to secure the rule of law? How to you plan on enforcing said laws with no taxes or t-bills? Cops, the FBI, CIA, NSA, OSHA, and about a hundred other agencies don't work for free.
How about roads? Do you like roads? If we left it to the private sector, you'd have to pay a toll every time you left your driveway. If they build the road, who's to say they can't put a toll up every 500 feet if they wanted to?
Oh yeah, the military. How the hell do you plan on having a military if you cut all the taxes? DoD is 60% of the total budget. So unless there is a private company with a few million employees, an entire air force and navy, and an annual operating budget of over half a trillion dollars... we'll get invaded by Canada... and they'll win.
A Libertarian is someone who sees something working in practice and then tries to dispute it with theory. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Rick Perry's Seven Constitutional Edits
| Quote: |
1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.
2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.
3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.
4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.
5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.
6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.
7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country. |
Some of the proposed amendments are bad. Others are downright terrible. |
Man some of these are bad and not well thought out at all... but some are outright stupid. I mean seriously, only a dumb person would advocate 2 and 3. |
How would #3 be stupid? That's the one that makes the most sense (since in the case of the 16th the constitution was amended very underhandedly just a few months prior to the Federal Reserve Act being passed). It is also the one the globalist stooge Perry would be least likely to actually follow through on. |
The gov't gets 60% of it's revenue from taxes. |
Sounds like 60% too much. Last time I checked the government has blown something like $5 trillion on the fake war on terror alone. The less money we give them, and instead spend amongst ourselves, the better.
| Quote: |
| How do you plan on paying for things? |
What does the government stealing my money at gunpoint have to do with my plans to pay for "things"? Are you suggesting my consumer demands could not be met without the government? Do elaborate. (And for the record I do concede the government is necessary to keep the basic rule of law in place).
| Quote: |
| You libertarians don't like debt either, do you? So I guess we have to ax treasury bills too? Great, now we have no income and thus, no government. |
You mean no corporatist/fascist leviathan state sucking the country dry. Nobody on the libertarian side is calling for "no government", just a drastically reduced one, operating within the confines of the constitution (not spending trillions on illegal wars and black ops, banker bailouts, corporate welfare, unsustainable ponzi scheme entitlement programs, and public works that could be met by the private sector if the demand were there).
| Quote: |
| Welcome to Somalia - a libertarian's wet dream. |
You mean an anarchist's wet dream. Libertarians are not anarchists.
And actually (since you brought it up) Somalia, while far from perfect (since it is run by warlords) has improved since it's government collapsed, has a fairly brisk informal economy (incl. the most developed telecommunications sector in the region) and is actually doing better than most other countries in SSA these days... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia |
Haha, man, I don't know where to start on this one. Are you actually advocating a Somali style system here? Maybe their economy is a bit better. But the biggest industry is probably pirating or drug smuggling. Libertarians are such goobers. If it was up to you, there would be nothing a business couldn't sell. Ron Paul would let companies sell heroin, as long as they can turn a profit. Just because you can make money on something, doesn't mean you should. Where do you draw the line? Hard drugs? Slavery? Kiddy porn? If you draw the line anywhere, then you aren't a total free market libertarian capitalist.
You want the gov't to exist to secure the rule of law? How to you plan on enforcing said laws with no taxes or t-bills? Cops, the FBI, CIA, NSA, OSHA, and about a hundred other agencies don't work for free.
How about roads? Do you like roads? If we left it to the private sector, you'd have to pay a toll every time you left your driveway. If they build the road, who's to say they can't put a toll up every 500 feet if they wanted to?
Oh yeah, the military. How the hell do you plan on having a military if you cut all the taxes? DoD is 60% of the total budget. So unless there is a private company with a few million employees, an entire air force and navy, and an annual operating budget of over half a trillion dollars... we'll get invaded by Canada... and they'll win.
A Libertarian is someone who sees something working in practice and then tries to dispute it with theory. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
| Haha, man, I don't know where to start on this one. Are you actually advocating a Somali style system here? |
Did you even read my post? Where the hell did you get the notion that I'm "advocating" a Somali system? Oh right, you're being disingenuous (a sure sign you've got nothing).
| Quote: |
| Maybe their economy is a bit better. But the biggest industry is probably pirating or drug smuggling. Libertarians are such goobers. If it was up to you, there would be nothing a business couldn't sell. Ron Paul would let companies sell heroin, as long as they can turn a profit. Just because you can make money on something, doesn't mean you should. Where do you draw the line? Hard drugs? Slavery? Kiddy porn? If you draw the line anywhere, then you aren't a total free market libertarian capitalist. |
The only "goobers" I can make out are people on the left who are so unabashedly daft that they can't figure out the difference between the "free market" and "slavery". I mean, disingenuousness aside, you'd have to be just a complete muppet not to know the difference. I sincerely hope you're not such a person...
As for drugs, yes they absolutely should be legalized, as is it would improve the society immensely, undermining the gangs and drug cartels, emptying the prisons, saving billions spent on the abortive drug war, etc etc.
| Quote: |
| You want the gov't to exist to secure the rule of law? How to you plan on enforcing said laws with no taxes or t-bills? Cops, the FBI, CIA, NSA, OSHA, and about a hundred other agencies don't work for free. |
Cops are public servants who could work for a simple salary. The FBI and CIA, NSA and other fed groups are criminal organizations that should be disbanded immediately. The CIA in particular are literally drug dealing terrorists, on record.
| Quote: |
| How about roads? Do you like roads? If we left it to the private sector, you'd have to pay a toll every time you left your driveway. If they build the road, who's to say they can't put a toll up every 500 feet if they wanted to? |
This is nonsense. A statement made by somebody who hasn't taken the time to research the subject he's blabbing about. Toll roads are not the only option for private roads. Here's a whole book that shreds the fallacy you have presented.
| Quote: |
| Oh yeah, the military. How the hell do you plan on having a military if you cut all the taxes? DoD is 60% of the total budget. So unless there is a private company with a few million employees, an entire air force and navy, and an annual operating budget of over half a trillion dollars... we'll get invaded by Canada... and they'll win. |
That budget should be slashed down to a mere fraction of what it is. Get rid of all the military bases overseas. Bring the troops home. Stop spending trillions on the military-industrial complex. It's all a waste.
| Quote: |
| A Libertarian is someone who sees something working in practice and then tries to dispute it with theory. |
Yeah, because everything is working so well now "in practice"  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
How about roads? Do you like roads? If we left it to the private sector, you'd have to pay a toll every time you left your driveway. If they build the road, who's to say they can't put a toll up every 500 feet if they wanted to?
This is nonsense. A statement made by somebody who hasn't taken the time to research the subject he's blabbing about. Toll roads are not the only option for private roads. Here's a whole book that shreds the fallacy you have presented.
|
This footnote on the first page tells you pretty much all you need to know:
*The author wishes to express a debt of gratitude to Charles G. Koch...
I can't help but envision a peasant kneeling under the table, tugging his forelock, and waiting for a few crumbs to fall off the table. For me, this sums up the libertarian view of the future. And they salivate at the prospect. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Quote:
How about roads? Do you like roads? If we left it to the private sector, you'd have to pay a toll every time you left your driveway. If they build the road, who's to say they can't put a toll up every 500 feet if they wanted to?
This is nonsense. A statement made by somebody who hasn't taken the time to research the subject he's blabbing about. Toll roads are not the only option for private roads. Here's a whole book that shreds the fallacy you have presented.
|
This footnote on the first page tells you pretty much all you need to know:
*The author wishes to express a debt of gratitude to Charles G. Koch... |
You're so lacking in debate prowess that the best you can come up with is a half-baked ad hominem? (and against somebody merely associated with the author, not even the author himself)... Not even an attempt to rebut any of the arguments he makes on their own merits?
Nice try Yat. You're not fooling anyone. Clearly you've got nothing, and on this issue you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper sack.
| Quote: |
| I can't help but envision a peasant kneeling under the table, tugging his forelock, and waiting for a few crumbs to fall off the table. For me, this sums up the libertarian view of the future. And they salivate at the prospect. |
Sorry, but the hellish prospect of the future that you're projecting here already belongs to socialism. Orwell even wrote a few famous books about it. I suggest you give him a read sometime.
Last edited by visitorq on Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| I see you offer nothing. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I see you offer nothing. |
I offered you an entire book, written by a professor. You offered a pitiful dismissal devoid of any facts or rebuttal. You lose the debate. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| You're cute. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
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CHALLENGE to visitororq:
Start a new thread and explain the world as you think things should be/go.
PS: Don't leave out the alien lizards. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
CHALLENGE to visitororq:
Start a new thread and explain the world as you think things should be/go.
PS: Don't leave out the alien lizards. |
I don't need to start a new thread. I've already handed you your butt in this one. That book was so far beyond you, you couldn't even attempt to rebuttal it or any of the ideas therein. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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If you look in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, under 'wimp', it says 'see visitorq'.
Is it because you are embarrassed about what you believe? I can't believe that is true. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
If you look in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, under 'wimp', it says 'see visitorq'.
Is it because you are embarrassed about what you believe? I can't believe that is true. |
You're like that black knight fellow in the Monty Python movie. Your attempts to provoke are just making me laugh  |
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