|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: Cherokees Kick Out Descendants Of Tribe's Black Slaves |
 |
|
Second-largest U.S. Indian tribe expels slave descendants.
| Quote: |
Reuters) - The nation's second-largest Indian tribe formally booted from membership thousands of descendants of black slaves who were brought to Oklahoma more than 170 years ago by Native American owners.
The Cherokee nation voted after the Civil War to admit the slave descendants to the tribe.
But on Monday, the Cherokee nation Supreme Court ruled that a 2007 tribal decision to kick the so-called "Freedmen" out of the tribe was proper.
The controversy stems from a footnote in the brutal history of U.S. treatment of Native Americans. When many Indians were forced to move to what later became Oklahoma from the eastern U.S. in 1838, some who had owned plantations in the South brought along their slaves.
Some 4,000 Indians died during the forced march, which became known as the "Trail of Tears."
"And our ancestors carried the baggage," said Marilyn Vann, the Freedman leader who is a plaintiff in the legal battle.
Officially, there are about 2,800 Freedmen, but another 3,500 have tribal membership applications pending, and there could be as many as 25,000 eligible to enter the tribe, according to Vann.
The tribal court decision was announced one day before absentee ballots were to be mailed in the election of the Cherokee Principal Chief.
"This is racism and apartheid in the 21st Century," said Vann, an engineer who lives in Oklahoma City.
Spokesmen for the tribe did not respond when asked to comment.
The move to exclude the Freedmen has rankled some African American members of Congress, which has jurisdiction over all Native American tribes in the country.
A lawsuit challenging the Freedman's removal from the tribe has been pending in federal court in Washington, for about six years.
As a sovereign nation, Cherokee Nation officials maintain that the tribe has the right to amend its constitutional membership requirements.
Removal from the membership rolls means the Freedmen will no longer be eligible for free health care and other benefits such as education concessions. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
I know only a little about this. One of the Civil Rights Acts applies US Constitutional protections against Indian tribes for the protection of Indians. But the Supreme Court wouldn't allow Congress to establish an enforcement mechanism for it.
Nevertheless, this is the kind of case that could make it to the Supreme Court and force them to look at the issue again. The descendents of black slaves have a really sympathetic set of facts here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| It must've really sucked to be an Indian on the Trail of Tears. It must've sucked more to be the poor bastard carrying their crap. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
I saw this yesterday and have really mixed feelings. I don't know what is right.
For who knows how many centuries the Cherokee were a distinctive people. Then the whites moved in, including Sam Houston, and the Cherokee tried to meet the standards of the more powerful whites. They struggled to adapt, and did, including buying slaves like the whites around them.
That wasn't good enough, and they ended up being forced to move west at the point of a gun to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears. For a century or so they accepted people with as little as 1/16 as members of the tribe.
Now it looks as though the majority has chosen exclusion rather than inclusion. I can't say what is just, fair, and right.
All I know is that I have a family photo of a woman who may or may not be an ancestor...and some in the family say she was a Cherokee.
Morning Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VqoxOcEqpk
Amazing Grace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYIjFtPQEk&feature=related
Whatever else is said, Cherokee is a beautiful language.
And a bonus: Buffy Sainte-Marie singing a Leonard Cohen song: Magic is Alive (if you can listen to it in stereo while on weed, you might become something other than a troglodite)--one of the great performances of Western Civilization (  : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY1annEsQRE&NR=1
And then there is 'Until It is Time For You To Go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17uvzMvGIaM&feature=related
From The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven:"I don't trust you," she said to me. "You are too angry." She was white and I lived with her in Seattle. Some nights we fought so bad that I would get in my car and drive all night, only stop to fill up on gas. In fact, I worked the graveyard shift to spend as much time away from her as possible. But I learned all about Seattle that way, driving its back ways and dirty alleys.
It isn't on topic, but I love the idea that Native Americans are coming up from Mexico and beyond, to replenish the tribes of 'our' land. It is time that we finally absorb our heritage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I saw this yesterday and have really mixed feelings. I don't know what is right. |
Really? It seems pretty straightforward to me.
If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
Perfectly put. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
Which they did for nearly a century and a half until they changed course, which is almost worse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This is about the assets from the casino in the town of Cherokee. A lot of money and the number of people trying to claim a piece of the money is amazing. Just because black people are involved does not mean this is about racism! It is about money and who should get some of it. Many Cherokee think that the money should go to people who live on the reservation and whose family has strong roots in the community. . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
This is kind of a contradiction, don't you think...a contradiction in the whip-lash (ohhhh, my neck hurts!) realm?
I have no idea if rollo is right, but it is plausible. I'd need more information to take a position. Something tells me that it is not just a simple squabble between red people and black people and we white boys can just wall paper it over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
This is kind of a contradiction, don't you think...a contradiction in the whip-lash (ohhhh, my neck hurts!) realm?
I have no idea if rollo is right, but it is plausible. I'd need more information to take a position. Something tells me that it is not just a simple squabble between red people and black people and we white boys can just wall paper it over. |
I could make it more simple: racial discrimination is wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If the Cherokee were willing to adopt the white man's worst custom, slavery, they should also be willing to adopt two of the white man's best customs, equal protection and due process. |
This is kind of a contradiction, don't you think...a contradiction in the whip-lash (ohhhh, my neck hurts!) realm?
I have no idea if rollo is right, but it is plausible. I'd need more information to take a position. Something tells me that it is not just a simple squabble between red people and black people and we white boys can just wall paper it over. |
I could make it more simple: racial discrimination is wrong. |
Not to Ya-ta. To him racial discrimination is the most wonderful thing there is. I'm not ever being sarcastic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Why would so many people suddenly want to on the tribal membership roll? Nostalgia for the great Native American past!this is about money. There are thousands of people of all sorts of ethnicity who attempt to get their name on the tribal rolls and get a piece of the casino money. Far more "whites" are rejected. People get denied or booted off all the time, these people just happen to be black. that does not guarantee that this is racial descrimination. Lets see one of your ancestors was a slave of the Cherokee, you are one eight of that lineage, and you have never set foot on the reservation. tHIS IS TYPICAL OF MANY OF THE APPLICANTS FROM WHAT I HAVE READ IN THE nORTH cAROLINA NEWSPAPERS. Should you recieve funds that were set aside for people who can prove that they are one 16th Cherokee and have relatives who reside on the reservation or who reside their themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is one thing if they were never voted to be part of the people. They were accepted as part of the people. Technically, they are not Cherokee, they are not Indians, but the ancestors accepted them, so excluding them seems based on greed. I know you can argue for the need to allocate resources to those who actually have Cherokee ancestry and blood, and so much is based on blood when it comes to Native Americans and what benefits they get. I don't like the sound of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ6RjP7MlXk
Cherokee People! Cherokee Pride! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer you make good points. I mistakenly wrote about people with one eighth ancestry when i meant to write one 32 for some who have tried to claim tribal funds. Remember some of the rules for claiming ancestry were developed by the government not the Cherokee. Also there are fairly stiff rules to claim membership. You just can not show up and say I am part Cherokee and get casino money , there has to be proof of your ancestry. Records, family bible or family still living on the reservation. Some provable connection. this is difficult for many people to do, since records disappear, or nothing was written down. So these people might have valid claims but do not have proof. Most of the casino funds are allocated to development and buying up traditional tribal lands when they come up for sale , so there is not as much to divvy up as people might think. Also their are two bands of Cherokee the Eastern and Western, most of the slave owning Cherokee went West. The Eastern band which has the biggest casino is made up of theancestors of people who fled and hid in the mountains rather than move West if the Western band voted to consider these people Cherokees the Eastern band is under no obligation to honor that decision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rollo wrote: |
| Adventurer you make good points. I mistakenly wrote about people with one eighth ancestry when i meant to write one 32 for some who have tried to claim tribal funds. Remember some of the rules for claiming ancestry were developed by the government not the Cherokee. Also there are fairly stiff rules to claim membership. You just can not show up and say I am part Cherokee and get casino money , there has to be proof of your ancestry. Records, family bible or family still living on the reservation. Some provable connection. this is difficult for many people to do, since records disappear, or nothing was written down. So these people might have valid claims but do not have proof. Most of the casino funds are allocated to development and buying up traditional tribal lands when they come up for sale , so there is not as much to divvy up as people might think. Also their are two bands of Cherokee the Eastern and Western, most of the slave owning Cherokee went West. The Eastern band which has the biggest casino is made up of theancestors of people who fled and hid in the mountains rather than move West if the Western band voted to consider these people Cherokees the Eastern band is under no obligation to honor that decision. |
Yes, much of this is based on the government's rules, and if the casinos are in the East, the Eastern Cherokee will definitely accept those who by blood were originally Cherokee. I can't say I agree about excluding the African Americans who were affiliated with the tribes, but I can understand the logic since things are based on blood, and if you're African American and haven't married into the Cherokee, then you're not truly Cherokee in the sense of blood as bad as that sounds. I don't know enough to judge this position. I don't like exclusion, generally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
