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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't see a huge gap between Lil' Jon and James Brown |
James Brown 'Sex Machine' may have been pretty racy for its time, but if you think that 'Sex Machine' and 'Get Low' (aka "To the sweat drip down my b*lls') is just part of the same cultural milieu, or does not signify a very large shift in the cultural landscape, then I can't help you.
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| It's more out there, but that's because of mprovements in technology, not because of changes in human nature |
Never mentioned human nature. I mentioned social values, and how these have dramatically changed over the years so that what once would have been regarded as taboo, is now utterly normal, and that in many cases, this is not a good thing. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't see a huge gap between Lil' Jon and James Brown |
James Brown 'Sex Machine' may have been pretty racy for its time, but if you think that 'Sex Machine' and 'Get Low' (aka "To the sweat drip down my b*lls') is just part of the same cultural milieu, or does not signify a very large shift in the cultural landscape, then I can't help you.
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| It's more out there, but that's because of mprovements in technology, not because of changes in human nature |
Never mentioned human nature. I mentioned social values, and how these have dramatically changed over the years so that what once would have been regarded as taboo, is now utterly normal, and that in many cases, this is not a good thing. |
But in most cases it's a great thing. Things like slavery, segregation, womans rights, gay rights, etc. etc. etc. Things tend towards liberty as time passes. Thoose tabbos are gone, and most people are far better off now than then. Yes, sex machine is part of the same milleau as get low, if you don't understand that, then you're probably another old man you doesn't understand youth culture. Elvis and the Beatles were the devil at one point too. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| One thing hasn't changed, and that's that people have been complaining about a decline in moral standards since forever. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| One thing hasn't changed, and that's that people have been complaining about a decline in moral standards since forever. |
A major component of morality has always been the sense of responsibility towards your own community or fellow man.
This must be the first time in UK that people have systematically looted their own communities.
There really is no redeeming factor in these recent riots. It was pure anarchic selfishness. Its a first for english society. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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@Junior
Come off it, if you are English you should know that our history has not been one long Richard Curtis movie.
The rioting in England is not unheard of and it was still nothing compared to the Paris riots of a couple of years ago. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
@Junior
Come off it, if you are English you should know that our history has not been one long Richard Curtis movie.
The rioting in England is not unheard of and it was still nothing compared to the Paris riots of a couple of years ago. |
The UK's history is ceasing to exist:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/275704/outsourcing-future-mark-steyn#
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In 2010, a quarter of births were to mothers born outside the UK, according to the ONS�
If a quarter of all babies born in England and Wales are to foreign mothers, then we�re experiencing the biggest change in our demographic identity since the Anglo-Saxon invasions of the fifth century. Future historians will regard this as the major development in early 21st-century British history� |
Your country is ceasing to exist; nevermind your history. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
| The rioting in England is not unheard of and it was still nothing compared to the Paris riots of a couple of years ago. |
There is a history of rioting for a definite political cause in the UK.
However this was just for the sake of stealing stuff. |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| I have to ask why do you think that music should try to function as some sort of social enginering by only talking about the best in human nature? |
I never said it should. I was merely pointing out that comparing today's music with that of 50 years ago says a great deal about changing social values, and what is deemed acceptable or taboo. Compare Smokey Robinson to Lil John.
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Compare Mods vs Rockers, football hooliganism, the National Front, glamourisation of the Krays or Great Train Robbers to what we have today. Where's the difference? |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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@Kimbop
Why is that a problem? As long as they grow up to be taxpaying law abiding citizens why does their ethnicity matter.
Britain will survive as long as it does not abandon large sections of its people to squalor and hopelessness as a result of unthinking austerity budgets.
The issue is not race its class. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I would argue that it is neither class nor ethnicity, but culture. I find your austerity quip pretty odd. Whether they are rich or poor, they would still be "English". They speak English, have a shared history, play the same sports, eat the same foods, drink the same beers. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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@Stilicho25
Sorry I am not quite sure what you mean, could you elaborate please? |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Some posters were arguing that immigration was destroying England. You said that England would be fine unless they implement austerity. My point was that austerity doesn't matter a whit whether England stays English, and while race doesn't either, the language people speak, the food they eat, and the activities they are interested in does. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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@stilicho25
Oh right now I understand, I took Kimbop's comment as a warning that if immigration continues Britain will cease to be a country in the sense that it will crumble and wither.
I was of the opinion that it doesn�t matter and that what mattered was that the govt doesn't roll back the welfare state as it is important for the continued prosperity of the nation.
In fact I agree with you that culture is important, although what do you mean by food and activities? Like cricket and shepherd�s pie? |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I doubt very much immigrants were taking part in the riots - unless 'immigrants' is code for 'black' and I assume few people on this board would want to imply that.
Anyway, interesting article on the riots here: http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/279-82/7215-daylight-robbery-meet-nighttime-robbery.
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| The Tories are right when they say the rioting is not about the cuts. But it has a great deal to do with what those cuts represent: being cut off. Locked away in a ballooning underclass with the few escape routes previously offered - a union job, a good affordable education - being rapidly sealed off. The cuts are a message. They are saying to whole sectors of society: you are stuck where you are, much like the migrants and refugees we turn away at our increasingly fortressed borders. |
No doubt, the knee-jerk dismissive response to that is it's just more liberals making excuses for criminality, but there's a valid point to be made, which is that you are much less likely to loot when you have a future in this economy than when you do not. And, believe me, I know there's a culture of low morals and Friday night acceptance of disorderly public behaviour in England that reaches to the middle class also as witness the case of the teaching assistant caught rioting. Nevertheless, the point stands.
And the larger point of the article is that the looting of our economy from the top down is by far the greater problem facing us. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Ken Loach makes another good point about the riots here: http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/279-82/7210-focus-ken-loach-the-ruling-class-are-cracking-the-whip
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| It isn't the only one of his documentaries to have been pulled; Questions of Leadership, a TV series critiquing the response of the trade union top brass to Thatcherism, made in the early 1980s, was never shown - apparently for political reasons. I ask whether it upsets him when his films are censored or withdrawn, and he says: "It makes you angry, not on your own behalf, but on behalf of the people whose voices weren't allowed to be heard. When you had trade unions, ordinary people, rank and file, never been on television, never been interviewed, and they're not allowed to be heard, that's scandalous. And you see it over and over again. I mean, we heard very little from the kids in the riots. You hear some people being inarticulate in a hood, but very few people were actually allowed to speak." |
Maybe I've been too quick to judge who these rioters are. |
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