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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| ldh2222 wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
This may surprise some of you, but the Korean students I've talked to about this seem to key-in on the language misunderstanding of "nikka." Yeah, the guy went over the top, but there are also a fair share of younger people who are somewhat implying that the old man acted rudely to begin with.
One thing I've come to notice in just the past year or so -- the younger generations are not exactly tolerating the general crap they are supposed to digest coming from those of the older generation who are just plain rude. Sure, they will play lip-service to "the Korean way," but they are not afraid to call an old jerk out for being an ass.
Sometimes I think we tend to play on our fears (or, perhaps, how it was in the past) and assume everyone just blames the black man and all foreigners. Times are a changin. |
I agree, that whole niga-n/word thing was overblown. If the upset guy had misinterpreted that, I think it would've been shown in the (albeit, short) video clip. He seemed solely upset at being hushed/spoken to while on the phone. |
I think some old beep screaming shut up at you while trying to kick you is good way to upset someone.
He just overreacted. I would've merely kicked the guy right back  (like in the shin, hard enough where it'd hurt him for a week at least) Just react in the precise way you were confronted to begin with. Never escalate. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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dbmctague
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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ldh2222
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
I think some old beep screaming shut up at you while trying to kick you is good way to upset someone.
He just overreacted. I would've merely kicked the guy right back (like in the shin, hard enough where it'd hurt him for a week at least) Just react in the precise way you were confronted to begin with. Never escalate. |
Aren't you adding quite a bit there?
You're the type of guy with a very balanced mindset, who professes that it's whatever, because you've seen Korean guys do worse! etc. etc.  |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Kennyftw wrote: |
| "teachers" you worthless scum for making our life easier here after |
You don't know the guy is a teacher. In fact its unlikely, there are so few places employing black men now. If he was a teacher he'd probably be a bit clued in already about the way things are here.
Personally I think he's just a tourist. maybe visiting a g/f or friend over here.
| Sojusucks wrote: |
| odds are that bus drivers are under orders to not physically intervene in fights and let the police handle the combatants. |
Can you really see Korean cops handling that? From what I've seen they can't even subdue korean women half their size.
How many of them would it take? 50?
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| It just sounds awfully weird that a person wouldn't have just told him it was a language problem, especially one that started off with "Shut Up" as the basis of spat. It's just a means of taking a over-done joke and applying it to a real situation. This (IN MY VIEW) was not a fight over the use of Korean slang. |
Oh I think a "shut up niga" casually directed at a black man for doing something that korean men do all the time (talking on the phone) would be enough to trigger such a reaction.
Especially when directed at a guy who has probably been subjected to all kinds of monkey/aprika jokes and stares for the few days prior and is on a hair trigger.
There is a lot of tension between koreans and african americans in the us., remember.
Obviously everyone has their breaking point. Korea has a way of applying extereme provocation to westerners and newbies are the most vulnerable to losing it because they don't understand a lot of things. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| ldh2222 wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
I think some old beep screaming shut up at you while trying to kick you is good way to upset someone.
He just overreacted. I would've merely kicked the guy right back (like in the shin, hard enough where it'd hurt him for a week at least) Just react in the precise way you were confronted to begin with. Never escalate. |
Aren't you adding quite a bit there?
You're the type of guy who professes that it's whatever, because you've seen Korean guys do worse! etc. etc. |
ok I"m watching it again.
given RChristo's CONTEXT the picture becomes MUCH clearer now.
Clearly the old fool caused the black guy to get really upset. I have no way of knowing how loudly the black guy was actually talking on the phone and exactly what/how the old Korean guy said to him.
but the black's guy way of shouting back "shut up", "shut up" at the K guy in that manner and then laughing and calling him a little --itch, pretty much confirms in my mind that the quasi geezer was being really stupidly confrontational.
Anywhere outside of Korea, and that old(er) guy likely gets his ass kicked. or physically confronted at the very least. FACT.
the geezeer seems to be living in some Confucian dreamworld. You'll notice after the woman screams and after the black guy leaned over in a confrontational manner, (without actually striking) the the old guy does TWO things.. tries to shove the black guy (does something with his arms) and then a little later as the woman screams, he DOES indeed try to kick the guy!!!!!!!!)
seriously now.. how effing STUPID can you be?
he's lucky he only took what seemed to be a half punch and it probably didn't even strike him directly.
if I'm the black guy, I'm mad at myself for not controlling myself and handing the situation in the manner I proscribed earlier.. but ultimately, if he IS getting deported over this..(which would be a complete "crock" of "justice") . he should leave with a big smile on his face.
the only mitigating circumstance in the Korean guy's defence is that he's "almost" grandfatherly". 10 years younger, let's say 50-55 and he's SERIOUSLY begging for an asskicking. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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ldh2222
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
| I think some old beep screaming shut up at you while trying to kick you is good way to upset someone. |
That was the part... where you made it sound like that the older guy did all of that initially in a highly aggressive, violent manner + the kicking? No.
And ZIFA: ha? it's been confirmed he's an English teacher. It's been confirmed he was taken to the police station so he was "controlled". And lastly, where did you get "shut up niga"?
Are you making your own story up? Way to go, champ... |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| Kennyftw wrote: |
| "teachers" you worthless scum for making our life easier here after |
You don't know the guy is a teacher. In fact its unlikely, there are so few places employing black men now. If he was a teacher he'd probably be a bit clued in already about the way things are here.
Personally I think he's just a tourist. maybe visiting a g/f or friend over here.
| Sojusucks wrote: |
| odds are that bus drivers are under orders to not physically intervene in fights and let the police handle the combatants. |
Can you really see Korean cops handling that? From what I've seen they can't even subdue korean women half their size.
How many of them would it take? 50?
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| It just sounds awfully weird that a person wouldn't have just told him it was a language problem, especially one that started off with "Shut Up" as the basis of spat. It's just a means of taking a over-done joke and applying it to a real situation. This (IN MY VIEW) was not a fight over the use of Korean slang. |
Oh I think a "shut up niga" casually directed at a black man for doing something that korean men do all the time (talking on the phone) would be enough to trigger such a reaction.
Especially when directed at a guy who has probably been subjected to all kinds of monkey/aprika jokes and stares for the few days prior and is on a hair trigger.
There is a lot of tension between koreans and african americans in the us., remember.
Obviously everyone has their breaking point. Korea has a way of applying extereme provocation to westerners and newbies are the most vulnerable to losing it because they don't understand a lot of things. |
The point that people are making in terms of the Ni-gga comment is in reference to the older Korean saying "니가 앉아." Which is not on the tape.
Now why in the world would the older man say to the black guy, "Shut up...Have a seat." Surely, it wasn't "shut up and sit down" in a crowded bus that had no vacant seats, that is....unless the Korean guy was offering said black man his seat. Ah...how kind. 
And perhaps you didn't notice, but if the woman was speaking in Korean to the black man and the black man (who did quite a good impersonation if that what it was) spoke in EXTREMELY clear Korean (clearly not just blurting out random curse words there....they really did flow out.... ), he obviously has some communicative abilities in Korean. It's doubtful that he would blow up over the confusion of 너가 and 니가.
Last edited by rchristo10 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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ok watching it AGAIN.
I there's a large aspect of "cultural misunderstanding".
you can laugh that off if you want, but it's FACT.
the black guy is hung up over the guy yelling at him to "shut up".
In english, someone yelling at you to shut up is QUITE confrontational.
In Korean, the old guy probably thinks by virtue of his age he's perfectly justified and excused from using that sort of language and tone.
what's surprising is the idiocy of both (the black guy not realizing where he is and with whom he's dealing with and controlling himself) and the old guy not realizing he's dealing with a foreigner who seems QUITE agitated and 5x his size)
and the old guy instead of displaying that supposed old age Confucian "wisdom" and allowing the gent to make a fool of himself, actually continued confronting him and by shoving/kicking him UPS THE ANTE!!
(at this point the black guy had not actually struck anyone, he was merely getting very close and menacing and threatening to do so)
if you add the potential "nikka" angle..
you now have "shut up nikka"?????? or something along such lines that the black guy possibly (mis) understood????
well, then.. all the necessary ingredients are in place for precisely what happened. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| The point that people are making in terms of the Ni-gga comment is in reference to the older Korean saying "니가 앉아." Which is not on the tape. |
Its not on the tape and its probably just speculation that thats what he might have said.
| Quote: |
| Now why in the world would the older man say to the black guy, "Shut up...Have a seat." Surely, it wasn't "shut up and sit down" in a crowded bus that had no vacant seats, that is....unless the Korean guy was offering said black man his seat. Ah...how kind. |
I didn't hear anyone say sit down. It appears that the ajosshi told him to shut up a few seconds before the tape started.
We all know that ajosshis can't stand to hear foreigners speaking on their cellphones. Especially in English.
Koreans are very protected from the consequences of their words in this society. And a lot of them don't realise just how dangerous it is to tell a westerner to shut up" or "puk you" or whatever other phrases they pick up from movies.
I reckon the guy is over here to watch the daegu games btw.
I don't believe he is a teacher because a) no school would employ someone with dreads and b) Schools have had blonde women trying to get jobs for the past 2 years, they are hardly going to employ a black male. In fact I'd be surprised if there are more than 10 black males working as teachers in the entire country right now. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| there is absolutely no excuse for what that guy did. He should go to jail and be shipped back wherever he came from. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
ok watching it AGAIN.
I there's a large aspect of "cultural misunderstanding".
you can laugh that off if you want, but it's FACT.
the black guy is hung up over the guy yelling at him to "shut up".
In english, someone yelling at you to shut up is QUITE confrontational.
In Korean, the old guy probably thinks by virtue of his age he's perfectly justified and excused from using that sort of language and tone.
what's surprising is the idiocy of both (the black guy not realizing where he is and with whom he's dealing with and controlling himself) and the old guy not realizing he's dealing with a foreigner who seems QUITE agitated and 5x his size)
and the old guy instead of displaying that supposed old age Confucian "wisdom" and allowing the gent to make a fool of himself, actually continued confronting him and by shoving/kicking him UPS THE ANTE!!
(at this point the black guy had not actually struck anyone, he was merely getting very close and menacing and threatening to do so)
if you add the potential "nikka" angle..
you now have "shut up nikka"?????? or something along such lines that the black guy possibly (mis) understood????
well, then.. all the necessary ingredients are in place for precisely what happened. |
Yep, to anyone who has spent time in both cultures (Korea and the US), the whole thing is kind of absurdly funny because you can see exactly why such a confrontation took place.
What you have here are two guys who have never stepped foot outside of their own cultures, and are so small-minded that they assume the other culture behaves exactly the same as theirs.
What I find unbelievable is that a busload of korean males (many of them soldiers presumably) do nothing. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Even if the passengers did call him a nigger, that would still not be an excuse for his behavior. It really boils my blood seeing that idiot harass people like that. I only wish I could of been there to drag him off the bus. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| there is absolutely no excuse for what that guy did. He should go to jail and be shipped back wherever he came from. |
Its not excusable (violence rarely is) but it is understandable.
if you had been called aprika monkey in the street every day since arriving at incheon, and if you had ajosshis behaving rudely to you constantly, you'd probably go nuts at the first one to be too blatant.
The guy didn't know when to stop, he went waaay too far. But at the same time, the older generation of koreans have to know that outside of korea.. it just isn't done to tell strangers to "shut up".
Last edited by ZIFA on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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