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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: "the" bus fight: open-minded Koreans |
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I am by no means an apologist, but I wanted to share some positive things (if there can be any) about this situation.
The bus fight came up today in the teacher's lunch room. There are about 80 teachers, faculty, and staff at my school, but more than half of people were present, drifting in and out of the conversation at times, and also people would eat and leave, and new people would sit down.
A lot of teachers were logical, realizing that this individual was crazy (or insert other pejorative), and not all black people are like that. I noticed the biggest complaint was that the people on the bus did nothing (on the video I noticed a few people near the altercation who tried separating the man from the woman), and they are just as much to blame for standing there and watching. For punishment, a lot of them said he should pay "some money" or spend some time in jail. Only a few said he should be deported. About the Korean man involved, most of them agreed that saying "shut up" is rude and shouldn't have been said (some people were silent...so I'm guessing they didn't have a problem with that), but all agreed that hitting someone because of that is wrong.
Some students talked about it after lunch, and they, too, knew that not all black people acted like this guy. It was a single incident.
I had no idea what their comments would be like, but I was prepared to hear some unsavory comments about black people and foreigners in general. I guess I wanted to share this because, frankly, I was really surprised by what my co-workers and students said today. My school is a tiny world where nothing really matters in the grand scope of everything, but it's nice to know there are people who are open-minded and not racist. I cannot say the same for the tons of people who choose to believe everything the Korean media reports. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
With some people, yes, I agree 100%; with others, I don't think so. I've formed close relationships with many of the teachers and have found them to be honest during other religious/political/social conversations. They've definitely had opinions opposite to mine in the past, but they certainly weren't racist. I also don't think in the teacher's lunchroom, in front of their co-workers, is the best place for them to be critical of their own culture or be in a situation where they can lose face. As I said, there were some people that chose to be silent at certain points, and I took that to mean they disagreed with a point or comment. Maybe they did have some racist or negative thoughts, but I'll never know because no one said anything.
Anyway, let's hope for better times! |
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ldh2222
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
And you wouldn't in the same reverse situation? That's how it is, unfortunately. Race relations! L |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
I'm not so sure. Most of the people I talked to about it echoed the thoughts mentioned in the OP. |
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Mr. Peabody
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: here
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Does the name Cho Seung-hui ring a bell?
Maybe Korea / Koreans learned a thing or two about blaming a whole nation or race for the actions of one person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| Most of our Korean friends who have seen this video or heard of the incident assume this particular person was crazy. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| ldh2222 wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
And you wouldn't in the same reverse situation? That's how it is, unfortunately. Race relations! L |
Right. Absolute honesty in these situations rarely ends up in harmonious agreement.
As I've always said about Koreans, it's very rare to meet a genuine racist. It's much more common to meet people who seem very misinformed and/or terrible at interfacing with foreigners. Regardless of English ability.
But that comes with the territory when one chooses to be an expat in a homogeneous society.
Strangely though, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot more genuine racists in Korea if there were a lot more foreigners here. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Most of our Korean friends who have seen this video or heard of the incident assume this particular person was crazy. |
Yeah, I think Koreans are (unfortunately) well acquainted with 'crazies' and the like. They know that every country/group has got 'em. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Most of our Korean friends who have seen this video or heard of the incident assume this particular person was crazy. |
Yeah, I think Koreans are (unfortunately) well acquainted with 'crazies' and the like. They know that every country/group has got 'em. |
That dude's laugh was so maniacal that it's really hard to take him seriously. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: Re: "the" bus fight: open-minded Koreans |
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| MollyBloom wrote: |
For punishment, a lot of them said he should pay "some money" or spend some time in jail. Only a few said he should be deported. About the Korean man involved, most of them agreed that saying "shut up" is rude and shouldn't have been said (some people were silent...so I'm guessing they didn't have a problem with that), but all agreed that hitting someone because of that is wrong.
Some students talked about it after lunch, and they, too, knew that not all black people acted like this guy. |
I discussed it with some Korean friends and I basically defended the black guy. Isaid that he was just angry at being ordered around by an ajosshi. Particularly as he was with his g/f. And that similar things happen to me. They sympathised.
We all agreed that he was absolutely wrong to hit someone of course. I insisted that it was ok to vent his feelings verbally though, but they disagreed: according to them you should not answer back to a reprimand from someone older.
A few years ago they would not brook any criticism of Korea from me, but nowadays they don't seem to mind so much. Korean perceptions are maturing, and there is an underlying optimism which i find encouraging.
Last edited by ZIFA on Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| What they say in front of you and what they think privately will likely be quite different. |
I'm not so sure. Most of the people I talked to about it echoed the thoughts mentioned in the OP. |
I agree. We talked about it for a few minutes at the end of class today. We'll be talking more tomorrow when we will have more time, but I didn't get the impression from my guys that they were automatically blaming the waygookin. I also think the usual bit about Koreans being overwhelmingly racist is seriously over-estimated here at Dave's.
| Quote: |
Does the name Cho Seung-hui ring a bell?
Maybe Korea / Koreans learned a thing or two about blaming a whole nation or race for the actions of one person.
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I also suspect this had a big impact. At the time, my students were very vocal about how Americans didn't whale on every Korean they came across because of Cho. They were stunned.
I'm with the same 10 students for up to 6 hours a day for 6 months. Some of them openly admit that they begin to forget I'm not Korean and just spout off what they think. The first few times it happens each semester, the 'offender' is sheepish about it. But it spreads and before long, they pretty much spill their guts about everything. My take is that Koreans are a pretty blunt people, by and large. |
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