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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| oldtrafford wrote: |
Squire wrote
That's a fair argument, and there's no point in me claiming all American intervention is a good thing because it clearly isn't. Sometimes it is though. I believe Iraq has a far brighter future than it did. It's a good thing the US didn't stand aside and let Kim Il Sung take South Korea. It should go without saying (although very late) the American intervention in WW2 was a good thing. The American supported government in West Germany was a far better place to live than East Germany.
Trying telling that to the Russians, you came in late to claim spoils that didn't belong to you. Russia rightly felt avenged with broken promises, and 30 million men dead.
Iraq has a far brighter future, hahahahahhahahahahhahahahaah!! You Yanks need to look at your history books. Both the French and the British paid the price last century, thy country will suffer the same, along with thy puppy dog biatch, Britain. I'm British by the way!!
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The US entered the war late to claim the spoils that didn't belong to them? Um no, I guess you've never heard of a little incident called Pearl Harbor? So yes the US entered the war "late", late 1941 fighting on all those little islands in the Pacific that the British invaded and stole from the natives over hundreds of years. Your country practically invented the idea of the puppet regime so get off your high horse. Oh and sorry I don't feel any sympathy for the Russians, lets not forget whose side they were on at the outbreak of the war.
Your obvious hatred for the US clouds your visions and just makes you look like an uneducated buffoon. Oh and before you start calling me a stupid Yank I'll give you a heads up and tell you sorry I'm not from the States. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| Wow, wooden scaffolding. I look forward to the day these people are liberated. I'd love to see Kim Jong Il tried and hanged like Saddam |
american, i presume? |
No, and I take it from your response you feel the North Korean people are better off under Kim Jong Il than they would be under an American puppet government? |
i just assumed you were an american judging from your bloodlust.
no other nation gets such indignant bloodlust for killing people than americans seem to. the reaction to bin laden's death was barbaric.
but, as you said, you're not american. so, there ya go.
my underlying point was, why would you want to kill someone, even if they are a pretty horrific leader? besides, the north korea of today is not the same place it was twenty years ago.
taking someone to an international court to recognise their crimes in a logical, cold mindset is what civilisation is all about. hanging them after the trial is not. |
LOL what a BS comment. The Brits sure have a short memory. (Not saying you're a Brit) |
wow, violence truly does beget violence to the uncivilised. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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@ttompatz
The consequences of the famine go beyond the immediate crisis though, for example long term health problems stemming from malnutrition. Even today the country is on the brink and most of the population still lives on far less than the healthy amount. Both in terms of scale and severity North Korea is incomparable with the social ills of the US.
For the 60% of the non-core class their suffering is state mandated, it�s not like the US government targets a segment of its population and deliberately keeps them in squalor.
Also while business interests have certainly tried to get as much of a market share out of Iraqi oil as possible I was not aware that the Iraqis were selling their oil for prices ridiculously below the OPEC standard.
As for the yank baiting, I was always of the opinion that whilst the Americans didn�t save us from speaking German they did have a hand in saving us from speaking Russian. |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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"no other nation gets such indignant bloodlust for killing people than americans seem to. the reaction to bin laden's death was barbaric."
You mean the reaction to the supposed 'recent' death?
I would tend to agree with your comment. It's inbred into
people. 'Mercans aren't the only ones though, cousin. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the photos. It was interesting to see pictures of the only country in the world with uglier buildings than South Korea. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| itistime wrote: |
"no other nation gets such indignant bloodlust for killing people than americans seem to. the reaction to bin laden's death was barbaric."
You mean the reaction to the supposed 'recent' death?
I would tend to agree with your comment. It's inbred into
people. 'Mercans aren't the only ones though, cousin. |
true. they seem a little more self-righteously vocal than other western countries, though. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
true. they seem a little more self-righteously vocal than other western countries, though. |
Really? Do Americans totally hijack threads about 3rd-party countries to criticize US foreign policy?
Americans are by no means the most obnoxious Westerners anymore.
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I enjoyed those pictures. It seems in the past few years we are finally getting some real glimpses into the Hermit Kingdom. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
true. they seem a little more self-righteously vocal than other western countries, though. |
Really? Do Americans totally hijack threads about 3rd-party countries tocriticize US foreign policy?
Americans are by no means the most obnoxious Westerners anymore.
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I enjoyed those pictures. It seems in the past few years we are finally getting some real glimpses into the Hermit Kingdom. |
hmm, yes, excellent argument. well done. /sarcasm
i, too, thoroughly enjoyed those photos, and i showed them to all my friends. stunning stuff. |
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tran.huongthu
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
Well, I don't think aq8k is joking. It boils down to whether you consider the USA and UK to be benign powers in this world or not.
In order to help others, you must first ensure that you yourself are strong. Which might account for all the realpolitik and hiccoughs. |
Not entirely. Even with the greediest intentions it would never be in our interests to set up a state as repressive as North Korea. Based on Iraq and Afghanistan the policy would most likely be to achieve a democratically elected government. The fact that NK is so homogenous removes some of the obstacles faced in Iraq and Afghanistan, and with free access to information how long do you think the cult of Kim Il Sung/Jong Il would last? I don't think it would take long to collapse like a house of cards. |
I think you, I and aq8 are in broad agreement.
However, the USA has gained a rep for clumsiness and greed and I think it needs someone like Ron Paul for a fresh look at things.
The USA should stop spending money on wars and aid to the Pakistans and Egypts of the world. Rather redirect all that cash to a makover of its own economy, incentives for the manufacture of goods.
And let the world stew for a while. |
Agreed completely. The US is just way too darn soft and Ron Paul will get my vote if he toughens things up a bit. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
That 1 million was almost 15 years ago... |
....and 10 of thousands have starved to death since!
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and if it was embargoed (polite term for blockade) would also be starving.
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There is no blockade. It is a myth spread by pro-Pyongayng supporters.
North Korea has been receiving food aid since the great famine in the 1990's. North Korea trades with several countries. It is the government that is totally at fault. |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
That 1 million was almost 15 years ago... |
....and 10 of thousands have starved to death since!
| Quote: |
and if it was embargoed (polite term for blockade) would also be starving.
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There is no blockade. It is a myth spread by pro-Pyongayng supporters.
North Korea has been receiving food aid since the great famine in the 1990's. North Korea trades with several countries. It is the government that is totally at fault. |
That is entirely correct.
| isisaredead wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| Wow, wooden scaffolding. I look forward to the day these people are liberated. I'd love to see Kim Jong Il tried and hanged like Saddam |
american, i presume? |
No, and I take it from your response you feel the North Korean people are better off under Kim Jong Il than they would be under an American puppet government? |
i just assumed you were an american judging from your bloodlust.
no other nation gets such indignant bloodlust for killing people than americans seem to. the reaction to bin laden's death was barbaric.
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Indignant bloodlust for killing people. I seem to remember the news of millions of marching muslims calling for death and destruction, destroying embassies etc back in 2005 over a simple set of cartoons. Are they not to be treated as morally accountable individuals? Not to say that that defines all Muslims, but get some perspective...
After Bin Laden's death the vast majority of people in the States did nothing more than open a beer, and maybe make some wry expression of regret at why the US is still wasting life and money in the region. The people I know, anyway. The things you see on TV about America don't give you the real picture.
Oh, and ever heard of the 5th of November (Guy Fawkes Day) ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Day
| isisaredead wrote: |
taking someone to an international court to recognise their crimes in a logical, cold mindset is what civilisation is all about. hanging them after the trial is not. |
The other members of the Allied powers (France, Britain, Russia) at the Nuremberg Trials in 1945 seem to have disagreed with you on the second item. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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big difference between 1945 and 2011.
whatever, i don't know why this argument is still going on, to be honest. |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| big difference between 1945 and 2011. |
Your comment was that the defining mark of civilization is that we don't execute war criminals and dictators. The corollary to that view would either be that civilisation did not exist in 1945, or that Britain and France were as uncivilised as the US in taking part in the Nazi executions (I suppose I'd better leave Russia out of that equation...)
You will find plenty of people in the US to agree with you that all executions - even for war criminals - are uncivilised. I've also heard plenty of British people express regret for the end of their ol' Tyburn hangings.
"Whatever", indeed. I'm guessing you don't have any American friends?
Last edited by cwflaneur on Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| double post |
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