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definitely maybe
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
If you are American then go home and look at the PRAXIS and alternative certification plans from different states. It is unlikely that you would ever recoup the costs of returning to university for a 2nd undergrad degree in education in addition to the costs you already have for your first degree.
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American citizens who are looking into further education and possible certification back home should have their eye out for programs that offer both an MAT and the possibility of certification. It usually takes a full academic year plus two summers to finish the average program, and includes the student teaching practicum. There are plenty to choose from all over the country, so there's no need to list them. They are pricey though.
The Praxis I and II are a prerequisite in many states, as are the CBest or something similar in others. These tests generally must be passed before admittance into any grad cohort in education working toward certification. Those of you with math or science related degrees may have a shot at conditional or emergency certification in some states, but those of us with humanities focuses are SOL.
People who are interested in an MEd TESL with classes offered in Korea and the possibility of returning home upon completion of the degree to do a teaching practicum should look into Framingham State University's program. The application deadline for the next cohort is pretty soon though.
Last edited by definitely maybe on Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
Education is provincially regulated in Canada and the standards vary, although once you are licensed in one province you can change to another province, but you may need to complete a bridging program.
As for GPA, it depends on what college you attend and what your specialty is. Border colleges in the US that cater to Canadian students accept anyone that meets that minimum requirements acceptable to meet the license requirements. Canadian schools typically have higher standards but if you're bilingual or are specializing in math-intensive subjects, there isn't as much competition.
Keep in mind virtually everywhere in Canada except up North and in very rural areas it is not a great time to be entering the education profession. |
Yup. I keep tabs through Facebook on what my university peers are doing (we graduated in 2007) and sadly, the ones who are in Korea right now are the best off financially. The ones back home don't seem to be making any meaningful progress in anything, including those with useful degrees (BEds and so forth). |
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smurfetta
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| smurfetta wrote: |
| I went back to Canada and got my B.Ed after teaching in Korea for a few years. I think that it was my teaching experience in Korea that really helped me get accepted to both of the universities that I applied to. You don't have to have a super high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. |
Three BEd programmes I talked to in Canada said that I needed A) a 3.5-3.8+ GPA with no exceptions and B) my experience in Korea was worthless to them.
I decided to do my MA in Linguistics online instead and get a university job here (my plan for next year). |
Try other universities in other provinces. Seriously, you don't need a high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. I would just apply and see what happens.
Edit: I found my experience in Korea to have been very valuable. It helped me get into both a B.Ed program and later on a MA program.
Last edited by smurfetta on Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
Education is provincially regulated in Canada and the standards vary, although once you are licensed in one province you can change to another province, but you may need to complete a bridging program.
As for GPA, it depends on what college you attend and what your specialty is. Border colleges in the US that cater to Canadian students accept anyone that meets that minimum requirements acceptable to meet the license requirements. Canadian schools typically have higher standards but if you're bilingual or are specializing in math-intensive subjects, there isn't as much competition.
Keep in mind virtually everywhere in Canada except up North and in very rural areas it is not a great time to be entering the education profession. |
Yup. I keep tabs through Facebook on what my university peers are doing (we graduated in 2007) and sadly, the ones who are in Korea right now are the best off financially. The ones back home don't seem to be making any meaningful progress in anything, including those with useful degrees (BEds and so forth). |
Well, it depends on your priorities and there are lots of variables there. For example, what will you actually be qualified to teach? If you're a female primary school teacher or you're a secondary English or social studies teacher looking for a job in an urban area, be prepared to do a few years supply-teaching, and even then it's a gamble. In some parts of Canada, even getting work supply-teaching is becoming harder to do. However, if you're qualified to teach secondary math and physics and a little bit more flexible about where you will live, you might still be able to get a full-time job right out of teacher's college.
Comparing teaching in Canada to Korea is difficult because in Korea, you obviously have an immediate job making a good wage. What you don't have is a secure 35-yr career ahead of you with a 70% pension. Education in neither Canada nor Korea is a growth industry and that's something to consider when considering a second career (and going back to get a B.Ed. is for all intents and purposes, a second career).
The OP has already stated he's not interested in teaching in Canada, and from a purely financial point of view, I'm not sold it would be worth it. The only comparative advantages I can see of working at an international school over a typical ESL gig is that the experience will be recognized when you move back to Canada, and that your children will get reduced-rate tuition. You're still contractual and not making particularly big money (unless you live in Saudi Arabia or something). |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| smurfetta wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| smurfetta wrote: |
| I went back to Canada and got my B.Ed after teaching in Korea for a few years. I think that it was my teaching experience in Korea that really helped me get accepted to both of the universities that I applied to. You don't have to have a super high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. |
Three BEd programmes I talked to in Canada said that I needed A) a 3.5-3.8+ GPA with no exceptions and B) my experience in Korea was worthless to them.
I decided to do my MA in Linguistics online instead and get a university job here (my plan for next year). |
Try other universities in other provinces. Seriously, you don't need a high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. I would just apply and see what happens.
Edit: I found my experience in Korea to have been very valuable. It helped me get into both a B.Ed program and later on a MA program. |
Really though, what university would want a minimum 3.8 GPA? With a GPA like that, the candidate should be going to med school, not becoming a school teacher.  I think UofT has a B-range minimum. (2.7-3.3 GPA?) What university in Canada has a higher standard than UofT? |
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smurfetta
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. A lot of people do a B.Ed after not getting high enough marks to get into professional programs such as med and vet school. U of T has to be the hardest school to get into in Canada.
| silkhighway wrote: |
| smurfetta wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| smurfetta wrote: |
| I went back to Canada and got my B.Ed after teaching in Korea for a few years. I think that it was my teaching experience in Korea that really helped me get accepted to both of the universities that I applied to. You don't have to have a super high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. |
Three BEd programmes I talked to in Canada said that I needed A) a 3.5-3.8+ GPA with no exceptions and B) my experience in Korea was worthless to them.
I decided to do my MA in Linguistics online instead and get a university job here (my plan for next year). |
Try other universities in other provinces. Seriously, you don't need a high gpa to get into a B.Ed program. I would just apply and see what happens.
Edit: I found my experience in Korea to have been very valuable. It helped me get into both a B.Ed program and later on a MA program. |
Really though, what university would want a minimum 3.8 GPA? With a GPA like that, the candidate should be going to med school, not becoming a school teacher. I think UofT has a B-range minimum. (2.7-3.3 GPA?) What university in Canada has a higher standard than UofT? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
Sorry for the triplicate post here, but just one more point.
A lot of international schools don't care where or how you're licensed to teach or even 'if' as long as you have an education degree, but many others teach a set curriculum, for example the Manitoba curriculum, and in order to teach this curriculum they need all their teachers to have a Manitoba teaching license. Now, for most teachers this isn't a problem if they are licensed in another province, but it's something to keep in mind when looking for the "easiest route" options.
One more point: Very, very few (if any) schools will accept you with a C- or even a C average because it may not satisfy the requirements for a license. With a C+ or B- average and good experience behind you'd have no problem. Have you considered doing a year of upgrading in a subject you'd like to teach? |
This has NOT been my experience.
Many "international schools" (by name) but not by curriculum or accreditation just want a degree.
Better international schools want the B.Ed/PGCE.
top tier international schools (IBO schools as an example) require you to have home country certification AND a minimum of 2 years of post grad experience (for purposes of THEIR accreditation).
Countries like Taiwan require you (to work in a school rather than a language academy) to hold home country licensing and an anglophone passport. Hong Kong is similar.
There are a few isolated schools who use a particular "provincial" curriculum and would prefer that you hold certification in that province but it is NOT a requirement for employment PROVIDED you hold certification another jurisdiction.
Caveat:
These experiences have been true throughout most of Asia. There may be exceptions but they are few and far between. I am NOT speaking about potential jobs in the Americas (south of the USA) nor of Europe (where other visa issues come into play as well).
AS to program acceptance, there are 2 ways to go.
1) post degree - they look at a combination of personal profile and your GPA. there is LOTS of wiggle room (I personally know people who entered the program with a simple c+ average on their initial degree but a STRONG personal profile and teaching time abroad goes a LONG way in this regard).
(can you even graduate with a C or C-? I know that you need a minimum of a C+ in your most recent 20 courses (your freshman and sophomore years don't count) to grad from any of my alma maters.)
2) start again and do a full B.Ed. Previous university GPA is not relevant.
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smurfetta
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
There are a few isolated schools who use a particular "provincial" curriculum and would prefer that you hold certification in that province but it is NOT a requirement for employment PROVIDED you hold certification another jurisdiction. |
I agree with this. I was offered a position at a Manitoba curriculum international school. They said that my BC certification was close enough. Also, I know that BC curriculum schools such as Maple Leaf Schools in China have a loophole. You either need to hold certification from the BC College of Teachers or the Office of the Inspector of Independent Schools. Here's the link:
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/offshore_schools/os_tc.htm |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| smurfetta wrote: |
Just found this info in the viu link that ttompatz posted.
"Applicants who are otherwise eligible for British Columbia College of Teachers Certification but who are not Canadian citizens are required to provide evidence of landed immigrant status or hold a valid work authorization to teach in Canada, before they may be issued a British Columbia teaching credential." |
Thinking back on this, it's kind of an odd statement. I graduated from a Canadian university as an international student not too long ago, and due to a change in the work permit process while I was there, you could extend your student work permit for up to three years after the time of graduating, so long as it was in your area of concentration. As such, I would assume anyone who graduated with a degree in education could get a work permit to work while studying, then use the extension, thus making valid work authorization essentially automatic for whoever wanted it. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
Sorry for the triplicate post here, but just one more point.
A lot of international schools don't care where or how you're licensed to teach or even 'if' as long as you have an education degree, but many others teach a set curriculum, for example the Manitoba curriculum, and in order to teach this curriculum they need all their teachers to have a Manitoba teaching license. Now, for most teachers this isn't a problem if they are licensed in another province, but it's something to keep in mind when looking for the "easiest route" options.
One more point: Very, very few (if any) schools will accept you with a C- or even a C average because it may not satisfy the requirements for a license. With a C+ or B- average and good experience behind you'd have no problem. Have you considered doing a year of upgrading in a subject you'd like to teach? |
This has NOT been my experience.
Many "international schools" (by name) but not by curriculum or accreditation just want a degree.
Better international schools want the B.Ed/PGCE.
top tier international schools (IBO schools as an example) require you to have home country certification AND a minimum of 2 years of post grad experience (for purposes of THEIR accreditation).
Countries like Taiwan require you (to work in a school rather than a language academy) to hold home country licensing and an anglophone passport. Hong Kong is similar.
There are a few isolated schools who use a particular "provincial" curriculum and would prefer that you hold certification in that province but it is NOT a requirement for employment PROVIDED you hold certification another jurisdiction.
Caveat:
These experiences have been true throughout most of Asia. There may be exceptions but they are few and far between. I am NOT speaking about potential jobs in the Americas (south of the USA) nor of Europe (where other visa issues come into play as well).
AS to program acceptance, there are 2 ways to go.
1) post degree - they look at a combination of personal profile and your GPA. there is LOTS of wiggle room (I personally know people who entered the program with a simple c+ average on their initial degree but a STRONG personal profile and teaching time abroad goes a LONG way in this regard).
(can you even graduate with a C or C-? I know that you need a minimum of a C+ in your most recent 20 courses (your freshman and sophomore years don't count) to grad from any of my alma maters.)
2) start again and do a full B.Ed. Previous university GPA is not relevant.
. |
ttompatz, I don't see where we disagree here. The thing about "Canadian" international schools, at least proper one, is there is no such thing as a "Canadian" curriculum or certification since education is provincially regulated. I know for a fact that at least Manitoba and Nova Scotia are quite aggressive at promoting their own curriculums (worldwide, not specific to Asia) and you do need to be certified to teach in those provinces to teach it. When I was in high school I attended a Canadian international school in Europe and all teachers there were Ontario-certified. However if you already have a certification in good standing in another province (BC for example), it shouldn't be a problem. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| smurfetta wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
There are a few isolated schools who use a particular "provincial" curriculum and would prefer that you hold certification in that province but it is NOT a requirement for employment PROVIDED you hold certification another jurisdiction. |
I agree with this. I was offered a position at a Manitoba curriculum international school. They said that my BC certification was close enough. Also, I know that BC curriculum schools such as Maple Leaf Schools in China have a loophole. You either need to hold certification from the BC College of Teachers or the Office of the Inspector of Independent Schools. Here's the link:
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/offshore_schools/os_tc.htm |
smurfetta, did you take the position? And if so, did they get you a Manitoba license? It works out the same anyways and I agree if you are licensed to teach in one province you are pretty well licensed to teach in the whole country. I don't mean to be splitting hairs here, I'm just curious. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
1) post degree - they look at a combination of personal profile and your GPA. there is LOTS of wiggle room (I personally know people who entered the program with a simple c+ average on their initial degree but a STRONG personal profile and teaching time abroad goes a LONG way in this regard).
(can you even graduate with a C or C-? I know that you need a minimum of a C+ in your most recent 20 courses (your freshman and sophomore years don't count) to grad from any of my alma maters.)
2) start again and do a full B.Ed. Previous university GPA is not relevant.
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3) Apply and if they reject you ask what you can do to get in. Sometimes they'll tell you sometimes they won't but it doesn't hurt to try.
4) Do a few part-time courses in a subject that's IN DEMAND, enough to get a teachable in it, and get high marks in those courses. Then apply. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: abcte.org |
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| waseige1 wrote: |
There is an online program at abcte.org for the states.
Just read carefully and insure what you want to teach is accepted in the state you want to teach it.
It has limited acceptance across the states.
I also might add, their tests are not easy. They are VERY hard. |
Major thanks for this link.
Like the OP, I've also got a BBA and was dreading the thought of having to go back and do a full B.Ed. in the States or something. I looked at alternate cert. routes but they're only for high school in my state and I'm looking at Elementary. Being able to knock out some courses online while here would be great.
Thanks again. |
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qwunk89
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| I did this program from Thailand: http://www.teacherready.org/. Took nine months and is really flexible; almost all online, you just need to work with an international school near you. I think it is only for US citizens as you will be certified in Florida upon completion (and passing the tests, which you do need to return to the states for - there are test centers around the US though). |
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smurfetta
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| smurfetta wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
There are a few isolated schools who use a particular "provincial" curriculum and would prefer that you hold certification in that province but it is NOT a requirement for employment PROVIDED you hold certification another jurisdiction. |
I agree with this. I was offered a position at a Manitoba curriculum international school. They said that my BC certification was close enough. Also, I know that BC curriculum schools such as Maple Leaf Schools in China have a loophole. You either need to hold certification from the BC College of Teachers or the Office of the Inspector of Independent Schools. Here's the link:
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/offshore_schools/os_tc.htm |
smurfetta, did you take the position? And if so, did they get you a Manitoba license? It works out the same anyways and I agree if you are licensed to teach in one province you are pretty well licensed to teach in the whole country. I don't mean to be splitting hairs here, I'm just curious. |
Silkhighway- No, I didn't take the position. There was no discussion about me getting my Manitoba certification during my interview and email correspondence with them. |
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