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airfilter
Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Location: New York
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 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
First of all it is too late to apply for a PS position as most are filled.
The same is true of University positions.
Bad timing for you there.
As for your qualifications, for a PS position you are actually overqualified as these are assistant teacher positions and the market is still flooded with applicants. In essence, applying at PS is working AGAINST you as you are not in a favorable employment stream. PS will naturally hire less experienced teachers, for many reasons.
You could do very well a a Hakwon with you qualifications and experience but that would require some networking on your part. From your post, it seems you are hitting recruiters for positions, which tells me you have not made that many good professional contacts in Korea. That will again land you in entry level positions and again you will be competing for positions that can typically be staffed by lesser experienced applicants.
You should try (if in Korea now) to VISIT some schools personally. That can give you an edge.
If not, you will need to be patient and find a job that nearly matches what you want, if what you want is realistic of course.
Contact people you know in Korea since you appear to have been there for a year or more. Ask them if they heard about any openings. I assume this based on your numerous posts on the value of teaching ESL in Korea (or lack of value). Unless I am mistaking you with another poster...
Try to contact schools directly if you can.
This is your best bet as you said initially: Here's my plan: tell me if it is a good one. I am going to apply for a D4 visa and fly to Korea on my own dime to study Korean at a university language institute. This way I will be in country during the prime university hiring season. I will try my hardest to network during this time also. Is this my best option?
Good luck. |
Kind of related question,
so when is the next big recruiting period?
Around October/November or so?
will I not have much success with the ads already being posted now on the board? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Don't make assumptions. I never said any such thing. I was open to any location, anywhere in Korea. Unfortunately, EPIK has a policy stating anyone who has worked in Korea at any point between January 2009 to present must have, as one of their two reference letters, a letter of recommendation from their most recent Korean employer...
P.S.- Patrick, your good friend The Urban Myth, who has worked as an English teacher in Korea for more than 10 years, wrote this:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Bottom line:
If you improve yourself, you can improve your job.
It all comes down to you in the end. |
...and he is still a public school teaching assistant, so I assumed it was a good job for experienced professionals. Am I wrong about that? |
First off I would like to see a link to this "policy" that you claim EPIK has.
I work for EPIK and the requirements ( as of June 2011) are either letters from a previous school OR letters from professors at the university you attended. Yeah letters from a previous employer are preferred but they will take letters from the professors as well.
How do I know this? Because I have 4 recommendation letters two from professors and two from previous employers and due to a mailing mixup I mistakenly sent the ones from my professors as opposed to one of each (which I would usually do). And I had no problem getting hired at all.
As for my job I am at the top of the EPIK payscale due to experience and qualifications. Which goes back to what I said about IMPROVING oneself and thereby improving one's job. Plus I enjoy teaching and would not trade this job for any other career choice despite what other people think I should be doing.
As for being an assistant I teach the majority of my classes (including 4 teacher classes) completely solo.
Despite what my OFFICIAL title is here, I am a teacher (certified back
home FYI) and I am one here as well. In other words it comes down to how you perform your job and not what your title is. I thought that (according to you) only Koreans were concerned about titles and such. 
P.S. So how's that 'helping the North Koreans' thing working out for you? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| First off I would like to see a link to this "policy" that you claim EPIK has. |
That's what a recruiter told me. But I guess some recruiters don't know what they are talking about and/or lie. I do remember reading about letter of rec requirements that stated just that (one letter must be from your most recent Korean employer) on a public school recruiting site. Not sure where. Maybe agencies have their own requirements (what they prefer) and won't bother with anyone else. Or maybe the rule changed since June. I have no idea. You could be right on this one.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As for being an assistant I teach the majority of my classes (including 4 teacher classes) completely solo. |
Sounds like you're pretty much a teacher then. Have you noticed in threads, PatrickGHBusan often says to people, "You are not a real teacher. You are only a teaching assistant." And in this thread I got the impression he was talking down to me for applying for a public school teaching assistant job. I was responding to that. But yeah, I should have phrased that better.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I thought that (according to you) only Koreans were concerned about titles and such. |
I definitely never said that.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| P.S. So how's that 'helping the North Koreans' thing working out for you? |
You (and madoka) want to mock me for caring about others? That's pretty low. Here's the answer though. Learning the Korean language proved much tougher than I had imagined. You've lived in Korea a long time and you said your Korean level is not very good. Korean is a very difficult language that takes years and years and years to learn. Right? I'm disappointed by how long it is taking me, but I'm about to redouble my efforts. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: I can't get a decent job. What should I do? |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| I can't believe I'm getting rejected. I have a Masters of Education and CELTA. I sure didn't anticipate this happening. |
Have you ever considered that it's not your qualifications that is getting you rejected, but rather it is the fact that you're an entry in the freakiest waygook thread? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Here's the answer though. Learning the Korean language proved much tougher than I had imagined. You've lived in Korea a long time and you said your Korean level is not very good. Korean is a very difficult language that takes years and years and years to learn. Right? I'm disappointed by how long it is taking me, but I'm about to redouble my efforts. |
It depends on the person. Some pick it up after a few years, others struggle with it. But I don't study Korean that much...I'm pretty sure if I became devoted to it back then I'd be fairly conversational in it now. But I just wanted to be able to get around the country and be able to order food over the phone and such without relying on Korean friends all the time.
If you really want to learn Korean though, the best way is through a language partner. There's really no substitute for having a native speaker correcting your mistakes and pronunciation. |
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ironclad80
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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i think what they value most is previous teaching experience IN KOREA. i also have a CELTA and it didn't help me one bit finding a job my first time here. i accepted a hagwon job, good location but the teaching director was an absolute witch and i even found out she was giving me bad references when i looked for new jobs!
anyway, when i went back home and applied for a new job i got offers left and right. only thing different on my resume was that i was in korea for a year. i waited for an offer i liked and i work for a public school in a great location and they actually treat me like a human being.
what am i getting at? well, maybe you have to slug it out at a hagwon for a year...  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| airfilter wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
First of all it is too late to apply for a PS position as most are filled.
The same is true of University positions.
Bad timing for you there.
As for your qualifications, for a PS position you are actually overqualified as these are assistant teacher positions and the market is still flooded with applicants. In essence, applying at PS is working AGAINST you as you are not in a favorable employment stream. PS will naturally hire less experienced teachers, for many reasons.
You could do very well a a Hakwon with you qualifications and experience but that would require some networking on your part. From your post, it seems you are hitting recruiters for positions, which tells me you have not made that many good professional contacts in Korea. That will again land you in entry level positions and again you will be competing for positions that can typically be staffed by lesser experienced applicants.
You should try (if in Korea now) to VISIT some schools personally. That can give you an edge.
If not, you will need to be patient and find a job that nearly matches what you want, if what you want is realistic of course.
Contact people you know in Korea since you appear to have been there for a year or more. Ask them if they heard about any openings. I assume this based on your numerous posts on the value of teaching ESL in Korea (or lack of value). Unless I am mistaking you with another poster...
Try to contact schools directly if you can.
This is your best bet as you said initially: Here's my plan: tell me if it is a good one. I am going to apply for a D4 visa and fly to Korea on my own dime to study Korean at a university language institute. This way I will be in country during the prime university hiring season. I will try my hardest to network during this time also. Is this my best option?
Good luck. |
Kind of related question,
so when is the next big recruiting period?
Around October/November or so?
will I not have much success with the ads already being posted now on the board? |
For PS it will be in the spring (EPIK for example) and there may be some PS jobs open and advertising in the late fall/early winter.
For Universities, high season starts in mid November and runs until end of January. To have good odds of getting one of those jobs you would do best as an IN-Korea applicant.
If you have other questions, shoot them my way here or via pm. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
For PS it will be in the spring (EPIK for example) and there may be some PS jobs open and advertising in the late fall/early winter.
For Universities, high season starts in mid November and runs until end of January. To have good odds of getting one of those jobs you would do best as an IN-Korea applicant. If you have other questions, shoot them my way here or via pm. |
Hi, Patrick:
This is one of many references I have seen concerning this tactic and I am beginning to wonder about the advisability of this approach. Certainly it would be something of an ESL "hail mary pass" in that one would have to make a great leap of faith in flying all the way to Korea on a simple visitors visa, yes? Still, if one wanted to secure a position, a face-to-face encounter with a potential employer seems to have its advantages. I'm thinking that flying into Seoul (Incheon) and taking a room at a local hotel then plying a list of agencies might have distinct advantages. Do you know of anyone who has made this work? Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce W Sims wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
For PS it will be in the spring (EPIK for example) and there may be some PS jobs open and advertising in the late fall/early winter.
For Universities, high season starts in mid November and runs until end of January. To have good odds of getting one of those jobs you would do best as an IN-Korea applicant. If you have other questions, shoot them my way here or via pm. |
Hi, Patrick:
This is one of many references I have seen concerning this tactic and I am beginning to wonder about the advisability of this approach. Certainly it would be something of an ESL "hail mary pass" in that one would have to make a great leap of faith in flying all the way to Korea on a simple visitors visa, yes? Still, if one wanted to secure a position, a face-to-face encounter with a potential employer seems to have its advantages. I'm thinking that flying into Seoul (Incheon) and taking a room at a local hotel then plying a list of agencies might have distinct advantages. Do you know of anyone who has made this work? Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
It's a bit more risky if you've never had an E-2 before, as technically you're supposed to get your first visa in your home country. As an American Guam is an option, but it does add another layer of complexity.
To be perfectly honest, given your age I think it would be a bit risky to come over without a job and without ever having had a visa. There will always be a hagwon job for a younger person who is in country. I'm not sure there will always be a job for someone in their sixties. It's something that might work out for you, but it's not something I would advise anyone to do unless they were convinced they could find a job, and I'm not sure you'll be able to. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Illinois; USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Well.... thats about as honest and straight-up an answer as I could hope for. Thanks much.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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Pinehurst
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Don't give up timing is everything. Make sure that you have all your docs at time of interview. It can take 16+ weeks for a US CRC with Apostille. See the other posts on how to avoid this. I know someone who is not blonde, overweight and only has a B.A. with no cert. or experience with children. He got a PS position in September. A good recruiter and a good introduction video that sets you apart will help. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Applicants in country have a significant advantage over overseas applicants. No debate there.
There is risk involved as well as expense if you fly yourself over and look for work locally. Sometimes the best deal for Universities is too find a job at a PS or Unigown, work your year there and apply for Korean Uni positions while in Korea with that added year of experience. |
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Jotun_Symph
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I was in the same situation, I had a high school GEPIK job lined up, signed my contract and the works, then in July was told that there was a hiring freeze. Needless to say I was frustrated, but what frustrated me more was the shitty jobs the recruiters began throwing at me. Most of them were 9 1/2 hours a day, 2.1 mil hogwan jobs (and we all know how those stories end), so I said to hell with these dinks and started finding my own jobs on online message boards.
As for your plan, I hear UNI jobs are extremly competitive, but with a Master's degree you should be in the top tier of the competetion, so I would give it a shot. Being in the country is a tremendous advantage for you in many ways, because even if you can't find the perfect uni job you can still sniff out the easy or good-paying hogwan jobs (if you're willing to go that route). Bottom line, don't get discouraged, yes recruiters told me the job market was scarce for males right now also, but I busted my ass for two weeks and ended up with 3 solid jobs to choose from. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Be aware that many of these "rules" are not exactly hard and fast. As an example they say that reference letters MUST not be older than 2 years. The letters from my professors were more than 2 years old by a considerable margin and yet they were both accepted. Not only that but EPIK also says they must come from different universities...mine came from the same university. I've known other people to get jobs with similar omissions as well.
In short some of these "rules" are nothing more than preferences. Yes in order to get your best shot you should follow as many as you can...but you don't have to cross every little t and dot every little i...although if you can you should. |
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