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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Students who graduate in times of bad economies have been shown to earn less and have fewer career advancements as their counterparts who graduate in good times. The silver lining on the dark cloud is that they will be forced to be more creative and take more risks. Some of the students who may have ended up on automatic pilot on a career treadmill may instead find themselves in a more rewarding career than they otherwise would have because of that, at least once they get off the starting block. If the economy is managed well at a macro level (right now it is not), there's only so long that you'll have underemployed Ivy League grads bartending and waiting tables. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| I consider myself part of the lost generation that's went to college, got a masters in biochem then after all that I couldn't even get horrible jobs like dishwashing for min. wage. Now I'm 28 and about to finish pharmacy school with a long term job waiting for me when I'm done in 2 more months. In my entire 20's the only real job I've ever had was teaching English overseas. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| I consider myself part of the lost generation that's went to college, got a masters in biochem then after all that I couldn't even get horrible jobs like dishwashing for min. wage. Now I'm 28 and about to finish pharmacy school with a long term job waiting for me when I'm done in 2 more months. In my entire 20's the only real job I've ever had was teaching English overseas. |
How about looking at the glass half-full here? You're *only* 28, you have a masters in biochem and a degree from pharmacy school, you have overseas teaching experience, and you have a new career lined up already! 
A few years after college working temporary jobs, feeling out what you want to do with your life isn't so bad. Patience is a virtue. On the other hand, I probably come from an area where people are more used to being under-employed, and where I currently live, there are university-educated people who have spent 20 years working in the front-line service industry just making ends meet. For people like that bartending or waitressing, which was only supposed to be a temporary job, had become their career, and that's a horrible waste of people who are capable of doing more. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| I consider myself part of the lost generation that's went to college, got a masters in biochem then after all that I couldn't even get horrible jobs like dishwashing for min. wage. Now I'm 28 and about to finish pharmacy school with a long term job waiting for me when I'm done in 2 more months. In my entire 20's the only real job I've ever had was teaching English overseas. |
How about looking at the glass half-full here? You're *only* 28, you have a masters in biochem and a degree from pharmacy school, you have overseas teaching experience, and you have a new career lined up already!
A few years after college working temporary jobs, feeling out what you want to do with your life isn't so bad. Patience is a virtue. On the other hand, I probably come from an area where people are more used to being under-employed, and where I currently live, there are university-educated people who have spent 20 years working in the front-line service industry just making ends meet. For people like that bartending or waitressing, which was only supposed to be a temporary job, had become their career, and that's a horrible waste of people who are capable of doing more. |
when I think of all the people my age that have 6 figure jobs, families of their own I feel like I've been cheated out of life I should of had. I've been patient for too long, only because I didn't have much of a choice. For people doing part-time work...they've wasted their time if they didn't acquire assets with their savings or moved onto something that pays higher. The worst case scenario are those that have went to college and have 6 figure dept with degrees they cannot get quality jobs with.
Previous generations at least got a job out of their degrees (no matter how obscure or useless) and their debt consisted primarily of the mortgage for the house. Now the situation is that the newer generation of graduates just have a mortgage-sized student debt with no house to live in and NO JOBS! That's not to blame the economic times or anything, I believe this whole saturation of degrees is entirely a man-made problem. Because anyone can get a loan to go to college the trend now is to acquire higher and specialized degrees like myself just to secure some semblance of employment. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| (http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=149371&start=1500&sid=7bb107ce2c4b10cd360f993b024a23fb) |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| I consider myself part of the lost generation that's went to college, got a masters in biochem then after all that I couldn't even get horrible jobs like dishwashing for min. wage. Now I'm 28 and about to finish pharmacy school with a long term job waiting for me when I'm done in 2 more months. In my entire 20's the only real job I've ever had was teaching English overseas. |
How about looking at the glass half-full here? You're *only* 28, you have a masters in biochem and a degree from pharmacy school, you have overseas teaching experience, and you have a new career lined up already!
A few years after college working temporary jobs, feeling out what you want to do with your life isn't so bad. Patience is a virtue. On the other hand, I probably come from an area where people are more used to being under-employed, and where I currently live, there are university-educated people who have spent 20 years working in the front-line service industry just making ends meet. For people like that bartending or waitressing, which was only supposed to be a temporary job, had become their career, and that's a horrible waste of people who are capable of doing more. |
when I think of all the people my age that have 6 figure jobs, families of their own I feel like I've been cheated out of life I should of had. I've been patient for too long, only because I didn't have much of a choice. For people doing part-time work...they've wasted their time if they didn't acquire assets with their savings or moved onto something that pays higher. The worst case scenario are those that have went to college and have 6 figure dept with degrees they cannot get quality jobs with.
Previous generations at least got a job out of their degrees (no matter how obscure or useless) and their debt consisted primarily of the mortgage for the house. Now the situation is that the newer generation of graduates just have a mortgage-sized student debt with no house to live in and NO JOBS! That's not to blame the economic times or anything, I believe this whole saturation of degrees is entirely a man-made problem. Because anyone can get a loan to go to college the trend now is to acquire higher and specialized degrees like myself just to secure some semblance of employment. |
Though I have an M.A., I think it would have been nicer if I were some business executive and pulling in a large salary. However, the important thing is to make the best of what income and time we have and to invest our money wisely. Do what you can, and looking back won't fix anything. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Two sides of the coin.
| recessiontime wrote: |
| ...when I think of all the people my age that have 6 figure jobs, families of their own I feel like I've been cheated out of a life I should have had. |
When your friends think of you and your freedom to travel and do what you want, without mortgages and multiple commitments, they feel like they've been cheated out of a life they should have had.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Loans, in-laws, divorce, stress at the workplace one can't afford to quit, man, the other side has it as rough as they do rosy.
Decide which side you want to be on, really! and be there. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Previous generations at least got a job out of their degrees (no matter how obscure or useless) and their debt consisted primarily of the mortgage for the house. Now the situation is that the newer generation of graduates just have a mortgage-sized student debt with no house to live in and NO JOBS! That's not to blame the economic times or anything, I believe this whole saturation of degrees is entirely a man-made problem. Because anyone can get a loan to go to college the trend now is to acquire higher and specialized degrees like myself just to secure some semblance of employment. |
The sad reality is that we need to stop paying for Pell grants, etc. for the children of the non-rich to get college degrees. Far too many of the great unwashed are getting educated beyond their station in life. In the old days, when we as a society thought that the abilities and skills of the majority could contribute to society was worth investing in has gone away. We need to tinker with the immigration rules to better skim off the best of the Indians and Chinese so we can utilize their creativity, but we need to cut way back on educating the kids of the middle and lower classes of Americans. Those people need to be smacked down hard so they accept their station in life. As they used to say, education just makes people dissatisfied. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| There is no going back now unless this student loan/education bubble bursts and I think it is going to. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| There is no going back now unless this student loan/education bubble bursts and I think it is going to. |
You're looking at a symptom (underemployed university grads) and are mistaking it for the problem. You could just as easily look at the far worse unemployment problem of non-university grads and assume the solution is more education, but that's not true either. In reality, educated people make jobs. The fact that there's so many underemployed grads is a symptom of a very badly managed economy, nothing more. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| The fact that there's so many underemployed grads is a symptom of a very badly managed economy, nothing more. |
The true tragedy is that capitalists run the economy and when they screw up (as they do time after time) and wreck millions of peoples lives, no one blames them or holds them accountable. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| The fact that there's so many underemployed grads is a symptom of a very badly managed economy, nothing more. |
The true tragedy is that capitalists run the economy and when they screw up (as they do time after time) and wreck millions of peoples lives, no one blames them or holds them accountable. |
The true tragedy is that SOCIALISTS run the economy and when they screw up (as they do time after time) and wreck millions of peoples lives, no one blames them or holds them accountable. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| There is no going back now unless this student loan/education bubble bursts and I think it is going to. |
You're looking at a symptom (underemployed university grads) and are mistaking it for the problem. You could just as easily look at the far worse unemployment problem of non-university grads and assume the solution is more education, but that's not true either. In reality, educated people make jobs. The fact that there's so many underemployed grads is a symptom of a very badly managed economy, nothing more. |
Not true, educated people don't make jobs. I don't have to point to all the drop outs that have become wealthy CEOs to make my point here. Jobs are made by people who take risks and are successful at providing value that others demand. Jobs are created by supply and demand.
The problem is the government backing student loans. This government interference in the economy produces a situation where anyone can go to school. The government collects taxes from citizens and uses this money to ensure that virtually anyone that is admitted to a university or college has the opportunity to pay for it using a loan. This is otherwise known as socialism and while all of this sounds tremendously good, it has tremendously horrible unintended consequences. Let me explain to you some of the negative consequences that the government did not see or take into account. First, it leads to lowered standards as schools will admit anyone to make a profit. This leads to a higher number and percentage of the population with degrees. This consequently leads to the devaluation of higher education and the simultaneous inflation of it's cost.
The reason why college education is inflated beyond the CPI index (and why tuition goes up tremendously these years) is because as I mentioned earlier, anyone can take out a loan since it is federally guaranteed by the government to the loaning banks. Since the schools know that most of their students are getting these, they can raise tuition up each year, gaming the system, knowing that students will be able to pay their tuition with greater amounts of student loan debt.
It's a positively reinforcing cycle where tuition gets bigger and bigger despite the diminishing returns of education. Like I said, it's a bubble. Once people realize that college is not worth the debt anymore and everyone walks away from college, that is when the bubble will burst. Of course there will always be jobs where college is necessary. People that want to become doctors & engineers will have to go to school for example but I think what will happen is that people will eventually shy away from the tremendous cost of tuition and risks of becoming shackled with 6 figure student loan debt which cannot be removed even with bankruptcy.
It also leads to a generation of debt racked student loan slaves that will do virtually anything to pay off the debt for their worthless degrees even if it means wasting their 20's making coffee at star bucks while living in their basement of their parents that can't get married or have kids because of the financial instability. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| There is no going back now unless this student loan/education bubble bursts and I think it is going to. |
You're looking at a symptom (underemployed university grads) and are mistaking it for the problem. You could just as easily look at the far worse unemployment problem of non-university grads and assume the solution is more education, but that's not true either. In reality, educated people make jobs. The fact that there's so many underemployed grads is a symptom of a very badly managed economy, nothing more. |
Not true, educated people don't make jobs. I don't have to point to all the drop outs that have become wealthy CEOs to make my point here. Jobs are made by people who take risks and are successful at providing value that others demand. Jobs are created by supply and demand.
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Your anecdotes of highly successful talented and driven people do not change the fact that the companies they run wouldn't exist without an educated labour force. Do you need a computer science degree to work program C++ apps, work independently, make smart decisions, meet tight deadlines? No, but without a computer science degree as a standard where would Microsoft begin to recruit 30,000 people? Study after study has proven that education is more relevant than ever in the workforce and the employment numbers back that up. Risk is absolutely important and that's where macro-economic factors weigh in, but so are skillsets, and educated healthy work-forces. |
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