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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I have a lot of respect for Patrick but on this one I think he is off.
The West, especially around Christmas, has a very strong gift giving culture.
On the other hand, Korean society seems to be much more exclusive. At private businesses, such as hakwons, I personally found that there have been Chuseok and New Year gifts.
But, I have never seen or even heard of a public institution such as a school or university that gave foreign faculty a Chuseok bonus. There may be some personal gifts or exchange of gifts with foreign faculty but they are very rare.
My guess is that if Patrick did receive some kind of Chuseok gift it was only because he first gave some kind of Chuseok gift to someone and shamed the person into giving something in return. My apologies to Patrick if that was not the case. I am sure Patrick would not have used the word shame.
I am with Eamo on this one. From a Western perspective, most Koreans are quite rude around Korean holidays. On the other hand, interestingly enough, I have found Koreans to be quite hospitable around nominally Western holidays such as Christmas. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I've never worked anywhere back west that didn't give a Christmas bonus. Secret Santas are arranged per workplace, but bonuses are pretty much the norm. Not sure where in the west you're talking about. |
Christmas is just a normal calendar workday in Canada. I was home last Christmas and pretty much everyone who didn't work for the government was working normal hours for normal pay.
Then again, being of religious origin, Christmas isn't technically a holiday anymore. It's on an employer to employee basis. I've never heard of anyone getting a "Christmas bonus" in the past five-ten years or so. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I've never worked anywhere back west that didn't give a Christmas bonus. Secret Santas are arranged per workplace, but bonuses are pretty much the norm. Not sure where in the west you're talking about. |
Christmas is just a normal calendar workday in Canada. I was home last Christmas and pretty much everyone who didn't work for the government was working normal hours for normal pay.
Then again, being of religious origin, Christmas isn't technically a holiday anymore. It's on an employer to employee basis. I've never heard of anyone getting a "Christmas bonus" in the past five-ten years or so. |
The issue is not really whether employers in the West still give gifts or bonuses at Christmas. The point is that, if, say, an American company did organize a gift-giving thing at Christmas (I think lots of smaller companies still do Secret Santa), would they exclude any non-American employees? I think not. It would be seen in the West as a glaring example of discrimination (probably a law to back that up) and/or racism.
Any decent employer concerned at all about 'team spirit' or 'company morale' would not do what many public schools across Korea do every Chuseok and Sollal.....if my employer even put a 300 won card on my desk thanking me for my efforts I wouldn't be writing this. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I dont think public schools here that exclude foreigners from workplace holiday gift rituals are being deliberately mean. Theres lots of extra stuff goes on between the K-teachers that we're generally not privy to. Wouldnt fly in the west but in Korea, we're not part of the "club." Many of them would be genuinely surprised that we even noticed or cared that we were left out.
Also, along with "getting" goes "giving." Above the occasional bag of cookies. Every office I've ever worked in here has had a teachers fund, which involves a small pay deduction to cover office coffee, dinners, & other exigencies. Do you contribute? One of the first things I did in my new school this month was ask about it. W20000 a month. Well, sign me up. How about when staff collections go on for colleagues' weddings, family funerals, hospitalizations -- do you contribute? Chances are, they dont even think to ask you.
This friday, there was a 2kg bag of brown rice on my desk from the VP. Same as all the K-teachers got. A nice gesture & not one I took for granted.
Chuseok & Seollal pay bonuses are a different issue. Those are an unstated benefit that goes along with K-teachers' contracts. Our contracts are fundamentally different. We already enjoy a number of valuable perks that K-teachers do not: free housing, travel allowances, etc. Its a fair trade-off. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I've never worked anywhere back west that didn't give a Christmas bonus. Secret Santas are arranged per workplace, but bonuses are pretty much the norm. Not sure where in the west you're talking about. |
Christmas is just a normal calendar workday in Canada. I was home last Christmas and pretty much everyone who didn't work for the government was working normal hours for normal pay.
Then again, being of religious origin, Christmas isn't technically a holiday anymore. It's on an employer to employee basis. I've never heard of anyone getting a "Christmas bonus" in the past five-ten years or so. |
I'm not Christian, but I always got a bonus check at Christmas time, even from Jewish bosses. Perhaps they were Chanukah bonuses. The Secret Santa thing was usually organized by employees or middle management.
Hell, Christmas was originally in spring and was moved to winter solstice to help win over pagans, if you really want to get technical. It's still considered a national holiday in the US. That's why my family always got Chinese food and enjoyed our free day off. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
| I am not aware of anyone getting 5 days off. Everyone that I know is getting 4 days off. |
what do you mean by 4 days?
a 4 day weekend.. aka Mon and Tue off, back to school on Wed?
I have Wed off as well.. special principal's day. My school always seems to add on a day or two to Chuseok, has happened every year. Yes, it's a PS.
best thing is my handler having to fill out the Korean bureaucratic form for the Wed day off, put in a sick day for me, knowing how unhappy I'd be if it were counted as a vacation day. 
I guess it's payback for never being sick
btw. I couldn't care less about not getting a Chuseok or Sollal bonus, etc. Those are things for K teachers, I'm not a K teacher.
I do get the towels or whatever other "gift" one of the bigwigs hands out.
this year, I got a really nice maekkoli gift set from my head co teacher. It was payback for all the little gifts I gave her in years past. A very nice gesture. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
I have a lot of respect for Patrick but on this one I think he is off.
The West, especially around Christmas, has a very strong gift giving culture.
On the other hand, Korean society seems to be much more exclusive. At private businesses, such as hakwons, I personally found that there have been Chuseok and New Year gifts.
But, I have never seen or even heard of a public institution such as a school or university that gave foreign faculty a Chuseok bonus. There may be some personal gifts or exchange of gifts with foreign faculty but they are very rare.
My guess is that if Patrick did receive some kind of Chuseok gift it was only because he first gave some kind of Chuseok gift to someone and shamed the person into giving something in return. My apologies to Patrick if that was not the case. I am sure Patrick would not have used the word shame.
I am with Eamo on this one. From a Western perspective, most Koreans are quite rude around Korean holidays. On the other hand, interestingly enough, I have found Koreans to be quite hospitable around nominally Western holidays such as Christmas. |
I agree on the Christmas gift culture but frankly speaking this applies between family, friends and some workplaces where people get along especially well. It is by no means a universal gift culture that ecompasses everyone.
Frankly speaking, if at a workplace, the boss decides to give gifts to employees or include them in a ceremony or party, he should include all the employees. Not doing so is rude and hurtful to those left out. That I completely agree with.
However, the gift giving thing is quite selective in many places. We have a christmas party at my department every year (everyone eats at the office as we order from a caterer) but thats abpout the extent of it. A lot of other departments do not do this and most people prefer to go home early.
When I was teaching in Korea we had a Chuseok event at the University and all the staff were invited to attend. Some did not bother to show up (Foreigners mostly, some Koreans as well). Thats a choice and no once can be faulted for it. I supppose I got luckly since I had pleasant chuseok, new years and teachers day at all the worklplaces I worked at in my 11 years. some places simply ordered pizza for everyone on for new years (after or before the holiday). Teachers day all teachers at the school got something. Some got more than others but thats a parents thing not an employers thing. At the second hakwon I worked at, the foreign staff got lots of stuff on Teachers day, the usual fare back then of socks, food gift sets, hankerchiefs....what happened is that a group of 3 foreign teachers on staff started making jokes about the "lame" gifts in front of the Korean staff and in front of some of the kids that were coming and going from class. That was just 3 people but they made everyone look bad.
I think eamo's example is sad in the sense that no staff should be excluded from festivities or gifts.
Schwa makes an excellent point about the giving and getting. My department here also has a party fund that everyone contributes to all year. That pays for the catering and for an activity (typically something out of the office during the year). In the korean setting, that exists too. Ask yourself if you contribute in anyway. This is a more complicated issue than "they (koreans) do not care about foreigners".... |
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KumaraKitty
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: |
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As I griped about receiving oil and tuna for Chuseok while I saw the boss slipping envelopes to my Korean coworkers, a good friend reminded me of a few key points:
1. I make more money than any of the Korean teachers.
2. I work less hours by far than the Korean teachers.
3. I do a fraction of the paperwork that the Korean teachersdo, not to mention the phone calls to parents, the lunchtime responsibilities,the bathroom duties, the frantic hair styling and grooming they do before the kids go home, the bus rides early morning and late afternoon, the field trips they go onwhen I have my day off, the longer vacation time I get,etc.
I'm a kindergarten teacher but I'm sure mAny other school environments are similar. I'd rather have my box of spam and work the way ido than trade it for a job like a Korean has and a meager cash bonus. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Bosses pay the least amount they can get away with paying. (I'd say most bosses, deep down inside, care about and are loyal to neither the Korean nor Westerner. So to me, this is not a racial issue.)
You as a Westerner bring in more money to the school than do the Korean teachers. The reason they are paid less is supply and demand.
You're on a short term contract and will be gone soon, so there is no reason to give you a cash envelope gift. Plus you are not part of that culture and are not expecting it.
Anyway enjoy your kindergarten job.
Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything to dampen your gratitude. That's cool you have a good attitude.
I have noticed though, that many Korean teachers (private & public) seem to resent the pay Westerners get. (Which is a fraction of what they, the Westerners, could be making in their home country.)
The next time someone tries to tell you (whether Western coworker or Korean) you are overpaid for the job you do, tell them about supply and demand. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
| I have found Koreans to be quite hospitable around nominally Western holidays such as Christmas. |
Eh. Expecting something for Chuseok is like expecting your co-workers to give you something for Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or any number of ethnic holidays. Nice if you get it, but I wouldn't hold my breath because I do not belong to those groups. Now if they didn't do anything for a Western holiday, then I would feel slighted. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I'm not Christian, but I always got a bonus check at Christmas time, even from Jewish bosses. Perhaps they were Chanukah bonuses. The Secret Santa thing was usually organized by employees or middle management. |
Man, I wish I could say the same thing. Outside of when I was employed by large corporations, I've only ever had Jewish bosses. The majority of them never paid me any Christmas or end-of-the-year bonuses. Also, all the Jewish workers were given Jewish (and Christian) holidays off, but the rest of us were always expected to work.  |
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DaHu
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I got rice balls.
Perhaps I should say "received" instead of "got".
Hmm. That sounds even dirtier. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I'm not Christian, but I always got a bonus check at Christmas time, even from Jewish bosses. Perhaps they were Chanukah bonuses. The Secret Santa thing was usually organized by employees or middle management. |
Man, I wish I could say the same thing. Outside of when I was employed by large corporations, I've only ever had Jewish bosses. The majority of them never paid me any Christmas or end-of-the-year bonuses. Also, all the Jewish workers were given Jewish (and Christian) holidays off, but the rest of us were always expected to work. |
I'm sorry to hear that. I found that I got the largest bonuses from the Jewish bosses.
Anyway, happy chuseok, everyone! Enjoy your days off! |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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50,000 won gift certificate for HomePlus from the boss on Thursday
which I used to buy my students fruit (dragonfruit, mango, nectarines, golden apples) on Friday during my Harvest Festival game day classes.
Happy Chuseok! |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Got some socks and a box of chocolates from a couple of students. My boss took me out to a nice kalbi restaurant, but we talked shop, so it was sort of a working lunch...still, it was quite good, and she keeps the meat coming until I am more than full.
My work-week is Sunday to Thursday, so I lucked out this year and got three days off (Sun-Mon-Tue) right after my normal weekend (Fri-Sat). It works out in the long run -- I've been at this school on this schedule for 9 years, and I have had as little as 1 day off (if Chusok falls on a Friday or a Saturday, my normal weekend). |
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