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news article says PS NSET's not putting in effort
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it is worth, base pay, though increased this year for public school teachers, is purposely much less than their full salary. Public school teachers get all these rediculous "bonuses" such as for transportation and meals; public school teachers also get periodic incentives as well. There is no reason for a full time teacher to make less than 2 million and I would guess closer to 2.5 to start (averaged over the year), even if their "base salary" is lower. In a couple years, 3.0 is not impossible (but only averaged over the year with all their bonuses and incentives).

Most probably work harder for it but there are plenty of anecdotes of public school teachers who do f-all once they are "tenured."

And, don't expect an honost discussion about money and salary, either. It is as taboo here as back home, though no doubt there will be a lot of curiousity about yours.

But, the thing to remember is that you don't have the support system that your co-teachers have. You don't have family here to help you; you have to navigate a new culture and language and even a new house and neighborhood. Not saying that that isn't half the fun but it does require work that the KTs don't have to deal with at all.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rainism wrote:
some waygug-in wrote:
Kind of sounds like the 'after school' program.

FT's are seen as a 'threat' because they are not Korean. They don't automatically fit in to all things Korean, they often don't participate in things Korean (and often for good reason), they make KT's look bad because they do naturally and easily what the KT's can't seem to do after years and years of training. FT's are an intrusion into Korean sovereignty, especially since teachers can have a lasting effect upon their students. Koreans don't want their children to lose their respect for Korean ways. (a justified fear perhaps, but perhaps not such a bad thing from our perspective)

I think one of the biggest fears amongst many Korean staff is that they might get a NET who is an excellent teacher and who knows how to teach English, then they would have to concede that all things Korean are not superior.


this sounds wonderful and I'd love to agree to join the bashing bandwagon, but in my personal case, it couldn't be more WRONG.

I must have gotten really lucky with all of my coteachers and immediate Korean staff but I know of others within gepik who also enjoyed very good situations.



You're right of course that this attitude does not necessarily exist in all schools, and I should have stated that in my post. I do think it is a very prevalent attitude though and many other posters would tend to agree.

And I'm not 'bashing' anyone, just relating the reality faced by many FT's. I suppose I could have said it better by saying Koreans are very conservative and left it at that, but that does not answer the question of why so many FT's have problems dealing with school administrations or
co-teachers etc.

To put it simply, FT's are largely unwanted in the PS system.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some waygug-in wrote:
rainism wrote:
some waygug-in wrote:
Kind of sounds like the 'after school' program.

FT's are seen as a 'threat' because they are not Korean. They don't automatically fit in to all things Korean, they often don't participate in things Korean (and often for good reason), they make KT's look bad because they do naturally and easily what the KT's can't seem to do after years and years of training. FT's are an intrusion into Korean sovereignty, especially since teachers can have a lasting effect upon their students. Koreans don't want their children to lose their respect for Korean ways. (a justified fear perhaps, but perhaps not such a bad thing from our perspective)

I think one of the biggest fears amongst many Korean staff is that they might get a NET who is an excellent teacher and who knows how to teach English, then they would have to concede that all things Korean are not superior.


this sounds wonderful and I'd love to agree to join the bashing bandwagon, but in my personal case, it couldn't be more WRONG.

I must have gotten really lucky with all of my coteachers and immediate Korean staff but I know of others within gepik who also enjoyed very good situations.



You're right of course that this attitude does not necessarily exist in all schools, and I should have stated that in my post. I do think it is a very prevalent attitude though and many other posters would tend to agree.

And I'm not 'bashing' anyone, just relating the reality faced by many FT's. I suppose I could have said it better by saying Koreans are very conservative and left it at that, but that does not answer the question of why so many FT's have problems dealing with school administrations or
co-teachers etc.

To put it simply, FT's are largely unwanted in the PS system.


I would submit that the number of coteachers who could care less about their NET is similar to the number of NETs who could care less about their coteacher.

Some people just like to work alone with this kind of thing and find their opposite number an inconvenience.

I mean for every English monkey NET, there is a Korean teacher smile-n-nodder that is beyond useless.

I think what you get is reflective of people in general. Some are good at working with others, others are socially awkward. Some are energetic, some are goldbrickers. NETs and KETs are probably the same 10% great, 10% wretched and the rest fall somewhere in between.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you're probably right about that much,

but when I was there, my co-teacher attended several "meetings"
in which the main topic of discussion was the"FT problem".

She came back telling me that my job was in jeopardy although she refused to elaborate as to the reasons. All I could gather was that the Korean teachers' union was doing their best to get rid of wayguk teachers.
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ZIFA



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If government schools shed all their FT's all that will happen is that more parents will send their kids back to the hogwons.

They know this, so they will retain FT's in the after-school programs. That way they won't have to work with them face to face anymore.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2011/09/budget-cuts-which-hobbled-gepik-part-2.html

Interesting piece. Apparently, the Gyeonggi school board wanted to keep NETs, but much less of them. They wanted a gradual decrease, however the elected board, dominated by 'progressives' wants all of them gone. Areas with 'progressive' dominated elected boards are Seoul, Gyeonggi, N Jeolla, S Jeolla and I believe Daejeon. Be wary if you work in a public school in one of these areas.

Daegu has increased their NET numbers. Probably partly due to being in the region of having one of the lowest test schools overall in the country.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZIFA wrote:
If government schools shed all their FT's all that will happen is that more parents will send their kids back to the hogwons.

They know this, so they will retain FT's in the after-school programs. That way they won't have to work with them face to face anymore.



�For unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has.�
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't think we put in enough effort? They should check out my co-teacher. I'm trying my best to get these kids to study English, but he just lets them sleep or study for other subjects. His idea of co-teaching is ignoring everything that goes on in the class, while he reads the news on naver.com.
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myenglishisno



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
They don't think we put in enough effort? They should check out my co-teacher. I'm trying my best to get these kids to study English, but he just lets them sleep or study for other subjects. His idea of co-teaching is ignoring everything that goes on in the class, while he reads the news on naver.com.


I've seen teachers get away with pretty much everything at public schools. The worst offence I've ever seen was a co-teacher who covered the windows to the classroom with paper and showed movies every single class. The students were tight-lipped about it because they wanted to watch movies. As far as I know, she is still working there (this was a couple of years ago).

We're under so much scrutiny because we're not Korean. We're under the spotlight.
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calendar



Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZIFA wrote:
If government schools shed all their FT's all that will happen is that more parents will send their kids back to the hogwons.

They know this, so they will retain FT's in the after-school programs. That way they won't have to work with them face to face anymore.


I would disagree here because the new, younger Korean English teachers speak English quite well and have taken advantage of the FTs in the classrooms at both Public schools and hagwons. The students aren't going to suffer if the FT is completely removed from Public Schools.

Most FT's complaints are in reaction to the possibility of losing their job and thier bias is seen in their remarks.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calendar wrote:
ZIFA wrote:
If government schools shed all their FT's all that will happen is that more parents will send their kids back to the hogwons.

They know this, so they will retain FT's in the after-school programs. That way they won't have to work with them face to face anymore.


I would disagree here because the new, younger Korean English teachers speak English quite well and have taken advantage of the FTs in the classrooms at both Public schools and hagwons. The students aren't going to suffer if the FT is completely removed from Public Schools.

Most FT's complaints are in reaction to the possibility of losing their job and thier bias is seen in their remarks.


I think this fairly true. I teach in a public school and I am nothing more than an expensive token, because my classes are of little or no consequence to the students or the school. They aren't assessed or tested in any way, and my school clearly don't care about what I do (I work in a private school but I am paid for by SMOE).
The novelty of having a foreigner in the school is wearing off because of the huge influx of NETs in recent years.
I'm just going to ride the gravy train until it finally ends. With the recent implosion of the GEPIK program, the clock must be ticking on EPIK, SMOE etc.
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shifty



Joined: 21 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
�For unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has.�


Laughing Amen.
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found completely the opposite, it is the Korean teachers who don't care at my school.
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