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Mr. Peabody
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: here
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 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Edward, you said in another thread you legally made 12 mil last month on an E-2 visa. You're a smart guy, so I don't doubt what you're saying is true, but could you tell us how you did it? |
Anyone who brags how much they make on the Internet is a tool.
Period. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Among all E-2 visa holders, what would be the percentage of those making 4 mil or more/month? I can't imagine it being over 5%. Even when adding the housing, flight ticket, pension and insurance it would be well under 10 %. And the same number for F visas? 50% give or take? |
Yes, it's probably around the same percentage of people here who consider TEFL their career and not something they're doing to pay off loans or bide time before they go back to a 'proper' job. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Lazio wrote: |
To make decent-good money on E-2 visa takes specialized and high qualifications + good work experience and somewhat of a special mindset dedicated to make a carrier in EFL. And I think some luck needed as well.
None of these are necessary for someone holding an F-2.
Among all E-2 visa holders, what would be the percentage of those making 4 mil or more/month? I can't imagine it being over 5%. Even when adding the housing, flight ticket, pension and insurance it would be well under 10 %. And the same number for F visas? 50% give or take? |
I agree with you that you need more specialized skills and higher qualifications on an E2 visa to make more than 4 million won a month, but this is also mostly true for people with F2/5 visas as well. Unless you are willing to work yourself to death, such as by teaching at two hagwons or something, you cannot easily make that kind of money simply by having a better visa. You still need qualifications and experience to land the better-paying jobs out there.
In my case, I make a high salary at my test-prep hagwon job not because of my visa, but because I have extensive teaching experience, have published several textbooks, and have a proven ability to help students get higher scores on their standardized tests. For other high paying positions such as this one, as well as the ones Edward mentioned, you need ability, not an F-series visa. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Anyone who brags how much they make on the Internet is a tool.
Period |
Fair enough but it was in the context of people saying you had to get an F2 to make over a certain amount of money. I said that wasn't true and to a few people who PMed me I told them how it could be done. Hopefully they picked up some knowledge about something and may use it to their advantage. If people say things which aren't true about something I know about I'll put them right and if they want advice about things like salaries, I'll give them the information |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| If people say things which aren't true about something I know about I'll put them right and if they want advice about things like salaries, I'll give them the information |
Alright then. The challenge is on. How do I come to Korea (Yes, I am not in Korea now) and make more than an F2 could? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Alright then. The challenge is on. How do I come to Korea (Yes, I am not in Korea now) and make more than an F2 could? |
When I came here I had an MA in TEFL, a CELTA, a DELTA, a CELTYL, I was a Cambridge examiner and had 15 years experience in teaching young learners and adults in 6 different countries. Like in any profession the more qualified and experienced you are the more you get paid. If you don't have any of that, you'll start at the bottom like I did
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr. Peabody
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: here
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If people say things which aren't true about something I know about I'll put them right and if they want advice about things like salaries, I'll give them the information |
Alright then. The challenge is on. How do I come to Korea (Yes, I am not in Korea now) and make more than an F2 could? |
lol...you're prolly going to have to wait for edwardcatflap's infomertial to air on late night tv. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
I'm sure the F-2s would like everyone to believe it was their intelligence and hard work that got them their money, and that their visa had nothing to do with it.
Take a look at these jobs, and tell me which is more desirable: the one in Gangnam that pays 3.5 million for 5.5 hours per day or the one in Suwon that pays 2.0-2.3 million for 9.5 hours per day. Hmmm...which is the better deal?
| Quote: |
Looking for Only F2/5 Visa holder
- Monthly Pay- 3,500,000
- Starting Date: Negotiable (September/October) * Gangnam
- Working Hours: Monday-Friday 8:30am- 2:00pm (no-overtime)(non-negotiable)
- Teaching Target: Pre-K to K children
- Location: Gangnam |
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| Quote: |
- Location : YEONGTONG IN SUWON
- Starting Date : MID NOVEMBER/ MID DECEMBER
- Vacation: 2 weeks paid vacation + Korean national holidays
- Benefits: Severance payment, Medical insurance, Airfare will be provided
- Student Type : Kinder ~ Elementary School students
- Teaching Hours :9:30-7 , Monday ~ Friday
- Housing : Furnished single housing
- Salary : 2.0-2.3 Mil Korean Won
-Female teacher only
-from Ca or US only |
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The pay for these two jobs is not that far apart:
3.5 mil - no benefits
2.3 mil
+ 0.5 housing
+ 0.2 airfare/12 mo
+ 0.12 pension
+ 0.06 health ins
+ 0.19 severance
3.37 mil total
Nearly the same.
There will be a bigger difference if the F teacher will get a severance payment, but for part time, independent contractor F visa jobs there may be no severance either, making the pay nearly the same.
But, in comparing these two positions, the E2 teacher will have a longer day. That isn't always the case either. |
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austrian123
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
You CAN do very well in Korea as a teacher or in other fields if you have the relevant qualifications, know how to market yourself, understand the importance of networking with fellow professionals and are able to set up goals and work towards them.
This can be done on an E2 visa or an a F-series visa. The F2 visa gives you a broader range of choices but you will still need qualifications. For example the F2 visa in itself does not qualify you for a University teaching position. Your actual qualifications do that.... |
Patrick, you have been spewing utter nonsense for quite some time giving false impressions to people that teaching esl is a gateway to success and a real career in Korea. While you are in the minority, the fact of the matter is that teaching in Korea is a blackhole....a career killer and the truth of the matter is that 99% of foreigners do not/cannot replicate your success. For some reason, I find that you are closed minded and for some reason you can't seem to accept the fact that teaching esl is a looked down upon occupation. Bottom line: most foreigners do not progress beyond teaching esl, and often return home just to come back to korea because they either have to start over or can't find a job. Stop creating false hope, you're doing a disservice to all esl teachers in korea. It's the law of averages.....everyone wants to be doctor or lawyer..but only a select few actually make it. No matter how much you try to convince yourself that you want to be a doctor or lawyer....hope and hard work isn't enough. That's life.
OP, my advice: esl teachers are a dime a dozen in Korea and the reputation of foreigners isn't exactly peachy keen. If you want to stay here long term, think about your options carefully. Once you reach a certain age here it will be more difficult for you to progress beyond teaching esl...by then it will be too late for you to go back home and find meaningful employment. Don't paint yourself into a corner. On the other hand there are a very small handful that are able to succeed beyond esl, but the VAST majority don't. Also consider that the market is saturated and the esl market isn't what it used to be. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
You CAN do very well in Korea as a teacher or in other fields if you have the relevant qualifications, know how to market yourself, understand the importance of networking with fellow professionals and are able to set up goals and work towards them.
This can be done on an E2 visa or an a F-series visa. The F2 visa gives you a broader range of choices but you will still need qualifications. For example the F2 visa in itself does not qualify you for a University teaching position. Your actual qualifications do that.... |
Patrick, you have been spewing utter nonsense for quite some time giving false impressions to people that teaching esl is a gateway to success and a real career in Korea. While you are in the minority, the fact of the matter is that teaching in Korea is a blackhole....a career killer and the truth of the matter is that 99% of foreigners do not/cannot replicate your success. For some reason, I find that you are closed minded and for some reason you can't seem to accept the fact that teaching esl is a looked down upon occupation. Bottom line: most foreigners do not progress beyond teaching esl, and often return home just to come back to korea because they either have to start over or can't find a job. Stop creating false hope, you're doing a disservice to all esl teachers in korea. It's the law of averages.....everyone wants to be doctor or lawyer..but only a select few actually make it. No matter how much you try to convince yourself that you want to be a doctor or lawyer....hope and hard work isn't enough. That's life.
OP, my advice: esl teachers are a dime a dozen in Korea and the reputation of foreigners isn't exactly peachy keen. If you want to stay here long term, think about your options carefully. Once you reach a certain age here it will be more difficult for you to progress beyond teaching esl...by then it will be too late for you to go back home and find meaningful employment. Don't paint yourself into a corner. On the other hand there are a very small handful that are able to succeed beyond esl, but the VAST majority don't. Also consider that the market is saturated and the esl market isn't what it used to be. |
I have to agree with austrian123 here. I accepted a hagwon job when I first arrived here 4 years ago but then really started to think about my options and my future and what my job prospects would look like if I decided to head back to the States.
After all, I wasn't some spring chicken straight out of school and what prospective employer back home would view teaching English in a Korean hagwon as a stepping stone to some great job, right?
After about a month or so at the hagwon, I struck out on my own and got a corporate job with a bit of effort, help and a lot of luck. I'm a F4 holder with an Ivy League degree and my degree opened more doors for me than I'd imagined. That said, not every F4 holder with a degree from a good school is going to land a great job. The fact that I spoke Korean fluently and could also read and write to a certain extent, helped immensely.
I'm now married with a 1-yr-old son - something that I didn't foresee happening to me, but hey, I fell in love - and for the time being, I'm staying put. But I'm no longer satisfied with my job. I have a family to raise and while many would consider me blessed and fortunate to be doing what I do, the hours and the constant traveling (I go to the States, Europe and parts of Asia about once a month, sometimes twice a month) are killing me and even though my income exceeds 6 figures (if bonuses are accounted for), it's just not enough. And being a gyopo, there's a corporate ceiling. Even if there wasn't a corporate ceiling, I just don't have it in me to move up further on the ladder. My position is as good as it gets for me. My wife used to work but after she had our son, she's been a full-time mom - it was a mutual decision that we both agreed upon. She also likes to shop and unfortunately, motherhood has not curbed her appetite for shoes and handbags. If anything, she spends more money now because of all the baby stuff she decides to import from Japan and Europe.  My son is still in diapers, but I already know that his upbringing and education is going to cost me an arm and a leg. What if we have another child (a strong likelihood)? Life isn't easy. It's not easy back home, but it's not easy here either no matter how peachy a picture that some may paint. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:28 am Post subject: |
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have to agree with austrian123 here. I accepted a hagwon job when I first arrived here 4 years ago but then really started to think about my options and my future and what my job prospects would look like if I decided to head back to the States.
After all, I wasn't some spring chicken straight out of school and what prospective employer back home would view teaching English in a Korean hagwon as a stepping stone to some great job, right?
After about a month or so at the hagwon, I struck out on my own and got a corporate job with a bit of effort, help and a lot of luck. I'm a F4 holder with an Ivy League degree and my degree opened more doors for me than I'd imagined. That said, not every F4 holder with a degree from a good school is going to land a great job. The fact that I spoke Korean fluently and could also read and write to a certain extent, helped immensely.
I'm now married with a 1-yr-old son - something that I didn't foresee happening to me, but hey, I fell in love - and for the time being, I'm staying put. But I'm no longer satisfied with my job. I have a family to raise and while many would consider me blessed and fortunate to be doing what I do, the hours and the constant traveling (I go to the States, Europe and parts of Asia about once a month, sometimes twice a month) are killing me and even though my income exceeds 6 figures (if bonuses are accounted for), it's just not enough. And being a gyopo, there's a corporate ceiling. Even if there wasn't a corporate ceiling, I just don't have it in me to move up further on the ladder. My position is as good as it gets for me. My wife used to work but after she had our son, she's been a full-time mom - it was a mutual decision that we both agreed upon. She also likes to shop and unfortunately, motherhood has not curbed her appetite for shoes and handbags. If anything, she spends more money now because of all the baby stuff she decides to import from Japan and Europe. My son is still in diapers, but I already know that his upbringing and education is going to cost me an arm and a leg. What if we have another child (a strong likelihood)? Life isn't easy. It's not easy back home, but it's not easy here either no matter how peachy a picture that some may paint. |
So you chose to work for a big corporation to earn more money and now you're working too hard and don't enjoy your job. Meanwhile your wife spends too much money and your kids are going to cost a lot.
These are the kinds of typical gripes working guys have been voicing for years all over the world. What's it got to do with what Austrian said about the ESL industry?
By the way I don't agree with him. As I said before the numbers of people who make a decent living out of TEFL are a small percentage because only a small percentage take it seriously enough to get properly qualified and commit themselves to bettering their positions. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Anyone who brags how much they make on the Internet is a tool.
Period |
Fair enough but it was in the context of people saying you had to get an F2 to make over a certain amount of money. I said that wasn't true and to a few people who PMed me I told them how it could be done. Hopefully they picked up some knowledge about something and may use it to their advantage. If people say things which aren't true about something I know about I'll put them right and if they want advice about things like salaries, I'll give them the information |
...maybe this is out of context but...Ed...you have mentioned in the past being married to a Korean...and yet you don't have at least an F2 or higher...what gives with that?
If this is too personal, feel free to ignore it.
Glad to hear your income warrants infomercial status...well done.  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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...maybe this is out of context but...Ed...you have mentioned in the past being married to a Korean...and yet you don't have at least an F2 or higher...what gives with that?
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Haven't got round to it yet. Like anyone else, I hate having to do any admin stuff and haven't seen much point so far either. I'm happy in the job I do now and don't want to work for anyone else. Someone said you don't have to go to immigration to renew anything but where I work you don't have to do that anyway. I just hand my card over to a secretary once a year and it's returned to me with a stamp the next day. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
You CAN do very well in Korea as a teacher or in other fields if you have the relevant qualifications, know how to market yourself, understand the importance of networking with fellow professionals and are able to set up goals and work towards them.
This can be done on an E2 visa or an a F-series visa. The F2 visa gives you a broader range of choices but you will still need qualifications. For example the F2 visa in itself does not qualify you for a University teaching position. Your actual qualifications do that.... |
Patrick, you have been spewing utter nonsense for quite some time giving false impressions to people that teaching esl is a gateway to success and a real career in Korea. While you are in the minority, the fact of the matter is that teaching in Korea is a blackhole....a career killer and the truth of the matter is that 99% of foreigners do not/cannot replicate your success. |
This says more about the people teaching in Korea than it does about teaching in Korea itself. I wouldn't confuse the two. If teaching in Korea were a career killer for someone (assuming they even had a career to kill), they wouldn't be teaching there in the first place.
The OP is asking about how to stay in Korea long term, which may require (as you've inversely suggested) some outside the box ideas. So Patrick gave some. As have others who have been in Korea (or overseas in general) long term. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
| austrian123 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
You CAN do very well in Korea as a teacher or in other fields if you have the relevant qualifications, know how to market yourself, understand the importance of networking with fellow professionals and are able to set up goals and work towards them.
This can be done on an E2 visa or an a F-series visa. The F2 visa gives you a broader range of choices but you will still need qualifications. For example the F2 visa in itself does not qualify you for a University teaching position. Your actual qualifications do that.... |
Patrick, you have been spewing utter nonsense for quite some time giving false impressions to people that teaching esl is a gateway to success and a real career in Korea. While you are in the minority, the fact of the matter is that teaching in Korea is a blackhole....a career killer and the truth of the matter is that 99% of foreigners do not/cannot replicate your success. |
This says more about the people teaching in Korea than it does about teaching in Korea itself. I wouldn't confuse the two. If teaching in Korea were a career killer for someone (assuming they even had a career to kill), they wouldn't be teaching there in the first place.
The OP is asking about how to stay in Korea long term, which may require (as you've inversely suggested) some outside the box ideas. So Patrick gave some. As have others who have been in Korea (or overseas in general) long term. |
Agreed. If you work hard, improve your abilities (teaching skills, writing skills, Korean skills, etc.), and, perhaps most importantly, network, you can do well in Korea, or any country for that matter.
I've tried to do all these things, and I now have a job that I enjoy very much (teaching test-prep). My job may not offer the best working conditions or benefits, but I mostly teach smart, hard working students and earn a decent salary while doing so. What I've accomplished is not impossible; I just made a little bit of effort to improve myself and stand out. Anybody could do the same. |
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