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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Far more than 1% of foreigners do very well in Korea.
The majority of FTs are however short term transient travellers who end up in Korea to travel, pay down student loans, save some money....
Thats the way the system is geared when it comes to visa (read : job) requirements.
My point, and you conveniently rolled right past it in your hurry to roll around in your own misery is that many people do quite well in Korea. Heck, on this very board there are easily 10 people, right off the top of my head, who have done just as well or better than me. Many started as E2 Hakwon teachers and moved from there either in better teaching positions, into business or other fields.
Now, this is basically the same reality you have in most places: the working community is made up of a few driven people who set goals for themselves and put in the work to get there and of people who let life and their work carry them on in whatever direction. Everyone has different characteristics.
Now, ESL-TEFL in Korea is a blackhole if YOU let it become one. Sure, if you drift from entry-level hakwon job to other similar hakwon jobs, do nothing to improve your credentials and qualifications and refuse to network even a little bit, then odds are, a few years down the road you will be in exactly the same spot you are now but older and with a somewhat useless hole in your employment history. That happens in most jobs, people sit in them and wait for thigns to happen wondering why those that get ahead do get ahead.
You want success in Korea: go get it. That means effort, planning, continuous learning and minimal networking. Its not mysterious, nefarious or magical and people that do end up doing well do not get there out of "luck".
You want your teaching time in Korea to boost your career: make it happen and make the choices that will maximise that time and experience.
Still, everyone has their own take on this, no worries. A lot of people are indeed only here for one or two years and are right out of University. They skim Korea for a couple of years and move on. Thats par for the ESL course for many and its fine that way.[/i] |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Far more than 1% of foreigners do very well in Korea.
The majority of FTs are however short term transient travellers who end up in Korea to travel, pay down student loans, save some money....
Thats the way the system is geared when it comes to visa (read : job) requirements.
My point, and you conveniently rolled right past it in your hurry to roll around in your own misery is that many people do quite well in Korea. Heck, on this very board there are easily 10 people, right off the top of my head, who have done just as well or better than me. Many started as E2 Hakwon teachers and moved from there either in better teaching positions, into business or other fields.
Now, this is basically the same reality you have in most places: the working community is made up of a few driven people who set goals for themselves and put in the work to get there and of people who let life and their work carry them on in whatever direction. Everyone has different characteristics.
Now, ESL-TEFL in Korea is a blackhole if YOU let it become one. Sure, if you drift from entry-level hakwon job to other similar hakwon jobs, do nothing to improve your credentials and qualifications and refuse to network even a little bit, then odds are, a few years down the road you will be in exactly the same spot you are now but older and with a somewhat useless hole in your employment history. That happens in most jobs, people sit in them and wait for thigns to happen wondering why those that get ahead do get ahead.
You want success in Korea: go get it. That means effort, planning, continuous learning and minimal networking. Its not mysterious, nefarious or magical and people that do end up doing well do not get there out of "luck".
You want your teaching time in Korea to boost your career: make it happen and make the choices that will maximise that time and experience.
Still, everyone has their own take on this, no worries. A lot of people are indeed only here for one or two years and are right out of University. They skim Korea for a couple of years and move on. Thats par for the ESL course for many and its fine that way.[/i] |
Yep! It takes some extra effort to move beyond average. Mama bird isn't going to be bring the worm to the nest. You need to go out and get it.
I worked hard back in my home country and did well. I have worked hard in Korea and I have done well. As PGHBusan has stated, it takes effort, planning, continuous learning and networking. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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OK, so you own a hagwon and make big money running it. Good for you.
I've always said recruiters and hagwons make more money than the serfs working at the hagwons.
However, racist and xenophobic governmental policies prevent me from being a recruiter or hagwon owner.
Sure I could use 100,000,000 won (up from 50,000,000 won last year) to get the investor visa, but I don't have $100,000 in my bank account.
So many options are closed to me.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Heck, on this very board there are easily 10 people, right off the top of my head, who have done just as well or better than me. |
Really? And were any of them not married to a Korean woman or ethnically Korean themselves?
The F-visa is a massive advantage, and you guys are conveniently skipping over that part.
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want to start a business - get a D-visa. It only requires a 50 million investment. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2010/08/123_71556.html
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| The Ministry of Knowledge Economy announced last month it revised the Foreign Investment Promotion Act to raise the capital requirement for D-8 corporate investor visa holders to 100 million won |
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want an F-visa - these days it is even possible to do that if you have spent some time in the country and you know some Korean. You don't have to marry anyone. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/117_60019.html
| Quote: |
| Residency through real estate investment will be tested on Jeju Island from next month. Expatriates who invest more than $500,000 in local real estate will be granted F-2 status and acquire permanent residence or F-5 status after residing in Korea for five years. |
I wish I had $500,000...but I don't.  |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
OK, so you own a hagwon and make big money running it. Good for you.
I've always said recruiters and hagwons make more money than the serfs working at the hagwons.
However, racist and xenophobic governmental policies prevent me from being a recruiter or hagwon owner.
Sure I could use 100,000,000 won (up from 50,000,000 won last year) to get the investor visa, but I don't have $100,000 in my bank account.
So many options are closed to me.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Heck, on this very board there are easily 10 people, right off the top of my head, who have done just as well or better than me. |
Really? And were any of them not married to a Korean woman or ethnically Korean themselves?
The F-visa is a massive advantage, and you guys are conveniently skipping over that part.
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want to start a business - get a D-visa. It only requires a 50 million investment. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2010/08/123_71556.html
| Quote: |
| The Ministry of Knowledge Economy announced last month it revised the Foreign Investment Promotion Act to raise the capital requirement for D-8 corporate investor visa holders to 100 million won |
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want an F-visa - these days it is even possible to do that if you have spent some time in the country and you know some Korean. You don't have to marry anyone. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/117_60019.html
| Quote: |
| Residency through real estate investment will be tested on Jeju Island from next month. Expatriates who invest more than $500,000 in local real estate will be granted F-2 status and acquire permanent residence or F-5 status after residing in Korea for five years. |
I wish I had $500,000...but I don't. |
Before I owned a hogwon and/or had an F-visa:
I was making 2.6mil per month plus benefits working for a hogwon. Plus,
I was legally working part-time for another school making 1.5mil per month without benefits.
In other words, I was making 4.1mil per month, plus housing and full benefits. I was doing this as a single person on an E2 VISA. I was doing all of this legally. Of course, all of this took hard work, planning, and networking. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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What year was this? Late 90s or early 2000s? Things were much different then. A lower supply of English teachers meant more opportunities for those there.
And back in those days it was legal to work more than one job on an E2? That's news to me. I never heard of it happening back then; I guess you were right to work hard and network, and it paid off for you.
2.6 mil a month (plus benefits) to work for a hagwon in the olden days when 700 won was $1 and the cost of living was much lower was a good wage (I think). How'd you manage that one? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
What year was this? Late 90s or early 2000s? Things were much different then. A lower supply of English teachers meant more opportunities for those there.
And back in those days it was legal to work more than one job on an E2? That's news to me. I never heard of it happening back then; I guess you were right to work hard and network, and it paid off for you.
2.6 mil a month (plus benefits) to work for a hagwon in the olden days when 700 won was $1 and the cost of living was much lower was a good wage (I think). How'd you manage that one? |
2001
It was legal with permission.
2.6 was a good wage. But, 35 55minute classes per week. M-F
1.5 job was Sat. and Sun.
I saved most of my earnings. I was too tired to do anything else. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
What year was this? Late 90s or early 2000s? Things were much different then. A lower supply of English teachers meant more opportunities for those there.
And back in those days it was legal to work more than one job on an E2? That's news to me. I never heard of it happening back then; I guess you were right to work hard and network, and it paid off for you.
2.6 mil a month (plus benefits) to work for a hagwon in the olden days when 700 won was $1 and the cost of living was much lower was a good wage (I think). How'd you manage that one? |
2001
It was legal with permission.
2.6 was a good wage. But, 35 55minute classes per week. M-F
1.5 job was Sat. and Sun.
I saved most of my earnings. I was too tired to do anything else. |
Shhh...
That's supposed to be a secret. You don't need a Korean spouse or an F visa. You can do this alomst anywhere - in Korea, at home, many other countries - work extra hard, increase your income through your efforts, don't spend your money on unneeded stuff, live frugally, save and invest prudently. Be patient. Repeat until you reach your financial goals. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa. |
So basically you want to make a lot of money while working as little as possible.
I'll let you in on a little secret pal. (and no this is not a personal attack or flame...it's just a fact).
With that mindset you will never make the big bucks NO MATTER what type your visa is.
Yeah you may have to work harder on an E-2 than on a F-2. So what? That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Instead of whining about it, why not try working harder?
I had a situation similar to wooden nickles (except I had weekends off. ) Mornings I worked at a company and afternoons/evenings I worked at a hakwon. It was all legit and registered with Immigration. I was pulling down 3.7 million a month. Even had a two hour break in between the company and hakwon.
(Not blowing my own horn here just sick and tired about how people complain they can't make money...but aren't willing to put in the extra effort.)
Yeah it was long days but those are the breaks. But a F-2 doesn't guarantee short hours either.
Many people with F-2's work even harder. I personally know three people (F-2's) who've opened their own hakwon. They all without exception work six days a week eight hours a day as they are the owners and the only teachers. That doesn't count preparation time or extra stuff like the report cards they do at their hakwon or mummy "counseling"
50+ hours work week. Yeah they can have their F-2 visa and that kind of work week...I don't envy them at all.
As for myself I'm doing quite well. My experience and qualifications put me at the top of the payscale in the public school system and at 20,000 won per extra class you can break over 3 million won EASILY for just a handful of extra classes per week. And I'm on an E-2 visa.
The moral of the story is if you are willing to work hard and keep your eyes open for opportunity rather than complain about how you don't have the right visa then you can make decent money here or better than decent.
And what gives with you anyway? You have stated in the past that you don't care about the money and are not here for it anyway. You are here to help the North Koreans. So why do you make post after post after post after post about money? If you're not complaining about the salaries here, you're contrasting them with the TOP salaries in the U.S. For someone who professes not to be here for the money you sure spend an awful amount of time talking about it. And I thought you were leaving this board for good anyway? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa. |
You�re not really listening are you. I mentioned the British Council before, where probably over 60 people work and good universities where hundreds of others work, all doing jobs that only require an E2 visa and, if they do a few hours of testing or overtime a week, probably make over 4 million for between around 15-30 hours teaching. It�s not the visas that separate people here it�s mostly the experience and qualifications |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa. |
I make over 5 million won a month at my single job where I teach fewer than 30 hours a week. I also have an E-2 visa. I got this job because I worked hard to improve my credentials and qualifications. My visa has nothing to do with how I got my job or negotiated my salary. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
OK, so you own a hagwon and make big money running it. Good for you.
I've always said recruiters and hagwons make more money than the serfs working at the hagwons.
However, racist and xenophobic governmental policies prevent me from being a recruiter or hagwon owner.
Sure I could use 100,000,000 won (up from 50,000,000 won last year) to get the investor visa, but I don't have $100,000 in my bank account.
So many options are closed to me.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Heck, on this very board there are easily 10 people, right off the top of my head, who have done just as well or better than me. |
Really? And were any of them not married to a Korean woman or ethnically Korean themselves?
The F-visa is a massive advantage, and you guys are conveniently skipping over that part.
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want to start a business - get a D-visa. It only requires a 50 million investment. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2010/08/123_71556.html
| Quote: |
| The Ministry of Knowledge Economy announced last month it revised the Foreign Investment Promotion Act to raise the capital requirement for D-8 corporate investor visa holders to 100 million won |
| Unposter wrote: |
| You want an F-visa - these days it is even possible to do that if you have spent some time in the country and you know some Korean. You don't have to marry anyone. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/117_60019.html
| Quote: |
| Residency through real estate investment will be tested on Jeju Island from next month. Expatriates who invest more than $500,000 in local real estate will be granted F-2 status and acquire permanent residence or F-5 status after residing in Korea for five years. |
I wish I had $500,000...but I don't. |
Sorry WT but I never did own a Hakwon. You are confused. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa. |
I make over 5 million won a month at my single job where I teach fewer than 30 hours a week. I also have an E-2 visa. I got this job because I worked hard to improve my credentials and qualifications. My visa has nothing to do with how I got my job or negotiated my salary. |
Now that just will NOT do!
Learn the motto my man: E2 visa means you are a slaaaaavvveeee and you could be making extraordinary money with superb benefits back in the US right now...
Got it?
Thanks...time to move on.
Oh WT..aren`t you supposed to be crusading in the hills of North Korea to save people from oppression? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Moral of the story:
Work 60 hours a week on an E-2 and get 4 million a month. Work 20 hours a week on an F-2 and get the same amount. OR work 60 hours a week on an F-2 and get 10 million a month. Yeah, I really wonder which is the better visa. |
Or, work as little as possible, moan and groan, and make up excuses.
Resume:
Experience: World Traveler
Lazy
Moan and Groan
Lack of Qualifications (Claimed as Wrong Visa)
*Want to work 20 hours per week, M~F
*Salary- Seeking 4~10 million a month
Moral of the story:
It's not the VISA... |
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