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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
I did, indeed, have a 'salaried white collar job.' It was not similar to this slog of teaching because MY former job was quite mentally stimulating and fast-paced. I got to have meetings with competent technical professionals of various types, worked on analyzing and solving complex problems, and wrote a lot of decently interesting reports. All this while being involved in a field of human effort [building and construction] which I find deeply fascinating--even here in Korea where the results of it are frequently awful.
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i was taking your post seriously until you mentioned that the korean building and construction industry is awful.
you do realize korea is one of the biggest players in the world construction game right? the burj khalifa, otherwise known as the tallest building in the world (as of now) was built mainly by samsung. you may have heard of them.
if you're gonna rage at least don't make silly generalizations.
edit: to drive the point home i'll list two more buildings in case you haven't heard of the burj khalifa.
the taipei 101 in taiwan and petronas towers in malaysia were also of korean construction. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
i was taking your post seriously until you mentioned that the korean building and construction industry is awful.
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In Ulsan I lived in a relatively new building having a most disconcerting wobble, like a mini earthquake.
The other tenants never seemed to bat an eyelid, inscrutable Asia at its best.
Another in Daegu was brand new and myself and another teacher were first in. It had a dilapidated feel with many serious leaks, just to look at it would make the power go out. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
In Ulsan I lived in a relatively new building having a most disconcerting wobble, like a mini earthquake.
The other tenants never seemed to bat an eyelid, inscrutable Asia at its best.
Another in Daegu was brand new and myself and another teacher were first in. It had a dilapidated feel with many serious leaks, just to look at it would make the power go out. |
oh i don't doubt that for a second. however, those types of buildings are usually put together by uncle park's construction co., proudly est. 2010, formerly uncle park's mandu hut.
there is shibby construction all over the world. check out some of china's issues with whole apartment buildings collapsing.
however, generalizing about it like the poster above did, especially in the way it was done, makes him sound like he has no idea what he's talking about and discredits his rant quite a bit.
all in all, when we're talking about legitimate and respected construction companies, korea has some of the best in the world hands down. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, threadjacking. How nice of you.
I am quite certain I know more about the development process globally than you do; as such I have no need to 'prove' it on an anonynous forum. But for the record:
To claim that building and construction IN KOREA is world-class is absurd. A huge proportion of the structures in this country are cut-rate, barely engineered and terribly designed hulks, at best. While it is certainly true that the top-quality firms are very reputable, those firms build but a small fraction of the total structures in SK. I mean, do you judge the net worth of Americans by the assets on the Upper East Side? I look at averages, in the home country, not all-star projects done abroad.
Have you ever looked at the basic buildings behind the shiny stores on any Korean street? The endless series of cheap, cookie-cutter poured-concrete blocks, one after the other, in every city? Ugly, terrible, worse than comparable cities in China.
Burj Khalifa [yes, I have heard of it] is in the UAE. Petronas is in Malaysia. 101 is in Taipei. So what if they were overseen by Korean contractors? Their architects were Western, their financing was native-country, and the workers who actually BUILT them were mostly South Asian. If Korea doesn't get any credit, why should it? |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
Oh, threadjacking. How nice of you.
I am quite certain I know more about the development process globally than you do; as such I have no need to 'prove' it on an anonynous forum. But for the record: |
i don't doubt this. your wording in your original post was contrary to this statement however.
| Modernist wrote: |
To claim that building and construction IN KOREA is world-class is absurd. A huge proportion of the structures in this country are cut-rate, barely engineered and terribly designed hulks, at best. While it is certainly true that the top-quality firms are very reputable, those firms build but a small fraction of the total structures in SK. I mean, do you judge the net worth of Americans by the assets on the Upper East Side? I look at averages, in the home country, not all-star projects done abroad.
Have you ever looked at the basic buildings behind the shiny stores on any Korean street? The endless series of cheap, cookie-cutter poured-concrete blocks, one after the other, in every city? Ugly, terrible, worse than comparable cities in China. |
i most certainly agree. i never once was foolish enough to state any generalizations about the wonders of building and construction "IN KOREA". the avoidance of generalizations was the point of my original post.
| Modernist wrote: |
Burj Khalifa [yes, I have heard of it] is in the UAE. Petronas is in Malaysia. 101 is in Taipei. So what if they were overseen by Korean contractors? Their architects were Western, their financing was native-country, and the workers who actually BUILT them were mostly South Asian. If Korea doesn't get any credit, why should it? |
that also was not the point. the where the architects, financiers and workers hail from have very little to do with this conversation. if we wanted to go down that alley and dissect where each part of the puzzle comes from instead of looking at the big picture then we could point out something like apple computers which all of their products have the nice little "designed in cupertino california" label on them while they are created, assembled and shipped out of china and taiwan and many of the parts are also designed by korean, japanese, taiwanese and chinese companies.
anyways, i digress. the point is the wording of your original post generalized and marginalized an industry which you seem to know a good deal about. but if you want to poke at the building and construction within rok then sure go ahead, although i'd love to see what you and a group of people could do in 50 years starting from scratch because i think it wouldn't be up to snuff either and then you might gain a new respect for the progress instead of throwing a temper tantrum about it. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| psymist wrote: |
| I'd really like to know how people who plan on staying in Korea are developing long-term financial plans. |
Good question.
From the most recent Newsweek:
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| In a 2010 survey of 226 registered investment advisors commissioned by Scottrade Advisor Services, more than three-quarters (77 percent) suggested a retirement savings goal of at least $2 million for members of Generation Y, defined by the study to include those ages 18 to 26. Sixty-eight percent of the investment advisers said members of Generation X should also aim to save more than $2 million. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The GEPIK program is just about finished. If you want a public school apply elsewhere. |
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Tallgesse
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just reading through this thread and I had a question.
I know this is not a viable or even desireable option for most teachers in Korea, most likely not for me eithier. But I am curious none the less is there something barring us, other than just not working the job long enough, from using our pensions in Korea as our retirement fund? Can we as foreign teachers not use it the same way Koreans can? Or is it just not enough to fund a retirment even if you worked over seas for 20+ years? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Tallgesse wrote: |
Just reading through this thread and I had a question.
I know this is not a viable or even desireable option for most teachers in Korea, most likely not for me eithier. But I am curious none the less is there something barring us, other than just not working the job long enough, from using our pensions in Korea as our retirement fund? Can we as foreign teachers not use it the same way Koreans can? Or is it just not enough to fund a retirment even if you worked over seas for 20+ years? |
For the average English teacher it's likely not enough to fund a retirement.
Assuming an monthly salary of 2 million and being that pension is 9% that's a sum of 2,350,000 won per year. Or around 2000 dollars American give or take. So you'd be saving about 2 grand a year. Not sure what interest rate the pension corp here pays (if any) but it can't be high enough to make it worthwhile even working 20 years or more.
Otherwise it would depend on your job and what kind of lifestyle you planned to live after retirement. |
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Tallgesse
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there an option in Korea to put more than the required amount into your pension? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Tallgesse wrote: |
| Is there an option in Korea to put more than the required amount into your pension? |
Not sure but I would doubt it. Maybe if you had another type of pension plan or something. Here's some additional info on that by the way...
http://www.pensionfundsonline.co.uk/countryprofiles/southkorea.aspx |
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jeremysums
Joined: 08 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Korea: Is it worth it? |
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Korea is worth it if you can't find a job in your country.
| Sofa_King wrote: |
This summer, I returned to Korea after a 5 year absence to work at a summer camp. I had lived in Korea for 2 years, from 2004-2006. After teaching in Korea, I left and taught for a year in Shanghai.
The experience this summer was great. I loved strolling down memory lane, eating and wandering around the streets that I used to call home. I love Korea and Korean people, and felt blessed to have returned.
This summer was great, and I am glad to have had such a great opportunity. However, I quickly discovered that Korea has become much more expensive, while the wage for foreign English teachers has remained stagnet. I noticed that a simple meal of Soondobu Jiggae rose from 3000 won to 5000 won, kimbab up 1000 won, and Galbi up 5000 won. Norebangs are 5000 won more. In addition, the price to get a visa was incredible. Paying for criminal record checks and apostiled documents was a cost that I did not expect. Rent, from what I understand, has shot up. Subways and taxis cost more. Clothes cost more. Everything has increased in price�.however, foreign English teachers wages have remained pretty much the same as it was in 2004.
It makes me think that if I had come to Korea now as a Newbie, I would have left after a year. In 2004-2006, I was able to completely pay off my student loans plus travel to other countries in Asia. My goal as a newbie was to do just that, pay off loans and travel. However, if a newbie came to Korea now, they would have great difficulties doing so.
Don�t take this as a slight against Korea. I love it there. But, with the cost of living sky-rocketing while wages remain the same, it makes me wonder how the Korean English teacher pool is not crashing. I did state earlier that I taught in Shanghai, and I�ve notived that the wage for my old company has increased since 2007 due to the cost of living increase in Shanghai. If I was choosing to teach English in a foreign country for the first time, I think I would choose another place, because the cost of living is too much while the average wage has been the same since 2004. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Korea: Is it worth it? |
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| jeremysums wrote: |
| Korea is worth it if you can't find a job in your country. |
No jobs in the entire United States?!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Figure01-earnings_by_degree.gif
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DO you love to live in Korea? The reason why I am asking is I met some foreigner teachers who complains a lot about Korea and Korean but they still want to live in Korea. I really don't understand why they live in a country which they complain about all the time.
I couldn't ask them because I didn't want to hear any other complains. hahaha If I asked them about it, they might be embarrassed.  |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
A
So when looking at your time here and the question of money earned and saved and so forth, you need to decide, firmly, just how much of your life you are willing to dedicate to this before you call a halt to it all, dump ESL/EFL forever and ever, and return to a real life, a real job and actually looking forward to going to work in the morning.
In other words, teaching mostly sucks, for most people. It's dull and repetitive and the vast majority of what you're doing is irrelevant. It demands skill, not intelligence. Most of the students may be sweet but they're dumb as rocks. |
However this is a real life and a real job. The grass is always greener in the other pasture so as to speak. There are plenty of people back in our home countries who hate their jobs and don't look forwards to going to work in the morning.
When people write stuff like this I have to wonder (despite their claims) if they actually ever held a job back home before coming here...and I mean a salaried white collar job comparable to this.
Teaching back home isn't much better. "dull" "repetitive" and "mostly irrelevant" are adjectives that generally apply to that profession there and indeed much anywhere. Same for the students back home...minus the sweetness.
The bottom line is this. Regardless of the profession it is up to YOU to do your work as well as possible regardless of apathetic negative co-workers or friends. If I make changes in just a handful of lives outside my immediate family/friends...I've done what I set out to do. How many people can say that? I've received several letters from former students (who went to Western countries to study aboard) thanking me for my teaching (and this was a couple years after the fact).
I'm not the only one either this has happened to. If you do a good job it gets remembered. Not by everyone and maybe not by even most, but a consistent effort and good attitude does pay off for at least a few. |
As some that has had a real salaried white collar job back home your post really rings true. |
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