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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: Hagwons: lesson planning, schedules, etc. |
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I've already read a lot about public schools vs. hagwons. I know the basic differences. I've heard quite a bit about public schools from others on the forums here. I want to get some of the finer details about hagwons so I can make a better decision on which route I want to go. So anybody who has worked or is working at a hagwon, please share.
One of my big pet peeves about teaching is lesson planning. Not the lesson planning itself. I don't mind lesson planning at all, but I'm not going to work all day and then go home and make lesson plans all night because my school wants me to come up with all my own teaching material and the school doesn't have any basic curriculum for me to follow.
Do most hagwons have basic lesson plans that they give to their teachers every week? One of the better schools I worked at in Thailand gave us all of our teaching material. It was up to the teacher to come up with activities for students to learn the material. My boss actually told me that I shouldn't need more than 20-30 minutes every night looking over the material to teach the next day. Is this what I can expect at a hagwon? Gererally, how much time do you spend on lesson planning every day when working at a hagwon?
People who have worked at public schools have said that the textbooks generally suck. I would expect this to be the opposite at a hagwon. The hagwon needs student enrollment to stay in business so I would expect them to invest in some good books for their students and to attract the parents. Am I right about this?
Hagwons require significantly more teaching hours per week than public schools. This is something I would not mind as long as I am provided with lesson plans or support in making my own lesson plans, such as a curriculum that outlines what the students are expected to learn each week or each month along with the necessary teaching materials. I don't want to be searching the internet every night for additional material to add to my lessons because the school hasn't provided me with enough teaching material.
This questions is more general. I just read from another user on this forum that 75% of the hagwons he hears about are nightmares. I've also read that public schools can be nightmares, but I would expect the reasons for this are different for the hagwon rather than the public school. What is it that makes so many hagwons nightmare jobs? There are probably lots of things, but what generalizations can be made?
My last question is how can I avoid nightmare hagwons in my job hunt? It seems nightmare jobs in Public schools cannot be avoided because you don't even know where you will be teaching before going to be Korea. You just have to hope for the best. But I can thoroughly investigate a hagwon before signing the contract. One of the recruiters I'm working with right now has even told me that they will get me into contact with somebody who is working at the school before I decide to take the job. Has anybody taken a hagwon job that seemed like it would be great and then everything just fell apart when you got there? Did you realize that you overlooked some things or was there no way of telling beforehand that things would turn out the way they did? |
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Kokoba
Joined: 07 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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The reason 75% of the content on Dave's about hagwons is negative is because people only post when something is going wrong and they need help.
There are some things that you just have to trust on blind faith. Even if you talk to a teacher, the school may hand select the teacher you talk to (for obvious reasons). There are other things you just don't think about, or that seem better on paper than they do in real life.
Most of my friends work(ed) in hagwons and are pretty well satisfied; a couple of them work at crappy hagwons and aren't as satisfied, as well. The pay is usually better than GEPIK/EPIK (unless you do EPIK and then dabble with some privates on the side), you get more of a hand in the process (ie where in Korea/Gyeonggi-do you go), and while the second-shift hours are kind of weird, they're also kind of nice. The classes are also a fraction of the size of a public school, at least when you're in Seoul. Plus, when you work at a public school, the chances are good you will be the only foreign teacher there. If you're coming to Korea for the first time, it can be nice to have a handful of other foreigners around you not only to show you the ropes but for day-to-day fluent English socialization.
Granted, at a hagwon, you will actually teach *more* classes and during the vacation time your EPIK buddies have off to like, go to Thailand or whatever.
*shrugs* |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Most established hakwons (including mine) use some teaching plan.. There are several out there and each hakwon chooses its own. Basically everything is laid out for you. You have to do no lesson planning, asside from maybe planning on a few activities here and there to suplement the material.
Hakwons are the way to go. The kids are divided by level, so you don't have a class with one kid correcting YOUR English and another who can't repeat ABC after you. I have taught both and would take hakwon anyday. |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kokoba wrote: |
| The reason 75% of the content on Dave's about hagwons is negative is because people only post when something is going wrong and they need help. |
This makes sense. Somebody on another thread said that the dropout rate for hagwons is well over 30%. How would you explain that? That scares me.
| Kokoba wrote: |
If you're coming to Korea for the first time, it can be nice to have a handful of other foreigners around you not only to show you the ropes but for day-to-day fluent English socialization.
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This is something I enjoy.
| cincynate wrote: |
Most established hakwons (including mine) use some teaching plan.. There are several out there and each hakwon chooses its own. Basically everything is laid out for you. You have to do no lesson planning, asside from maybe planning on a few activities here and there to suplement the material.
Hakwons are the way to go. The kids are divided by level, so you don't have a class with one kid correcting YOUR English and another who can't repeat ABC after you. I have taught both and would take hakwon anyday. |
This sounds like my kind of thing. You're sure that most hagwons are going to be providing basically all of the lesson plans? I guess I could just ask during my interview what materials they provide.
Glad to hear the other side of the story. I've been hearing mostly why public schools are great and hagwons suck. I think my priorities are suited best for hagwons. The 5 weeks of paid vacation that public school teachers get is attractive, but being able to actually choose where I work is nice. EPIK seems like a bigger gamble than carefully choosing a hagwon.
One hagwon job ad that I'm looking at right now lists just the teaching hours and says that I'm are required to come in one hour before my first lesson. I calculated the hours out and it's only 35 hours per week. EPIK will keep you at the school 40 hours per week regardless of how many hours you actually teach. Hagwons won't keep you at the school during non-teaching hours? |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Hagwons won't keep you at the school during non-teaching hours? |
Of course every hakwon is different.. But every one I've worked at doesn't want you there when you're not teaching any more than you don't want to me there. I am only at my hakwon when I actually have class.. Although my contract also states that I should spend an hour 'preparing'.. as long as my classes go smoothly, they don't care that I show up 5 minutes before my classes start. Like I said, they know that the lessons are already planned out for you. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I've worked at three hakwons, and one of them did provide (crappy) lessons that I ended up being paid to rewrite and replace, and the other two places I worked expected the teachers to prepare their own lessons.
The first place was a Wonderland, and the second and third places were smaller, academically-challenging hakwons. In my opinion, a school offering canned lesson plans is a red flag -- means they do not actually hire teachers, and expect to need to bring the dregs up to some mediocre standard.
A curriculum is a different story, of course -- a place SHOULD have clear goals and benchmarks that one is intended to reach in each year/semester...but if you are told to be on page 46, and to give the handouts in folder 2-B for 15 minutes...yeah, that stuff is in place to try to bring the bottom up to the middle.... |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
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OP, you have to decide what kind of animal you are; a hakwonner or public school civil servant. The 'feel' at each is quite different.
At a hakwon usually the K teacher does the nitty gritty and you are there to bring it to life and improve pronunciation. In effect though, you end up making the biggest difference and carry the K teachers.
But it is what they do that dictates what you'll be doing. So you don't plan, they do.
B/c a lot of the K teacher's time in class is taken up with homework admin and interminable talking in Korean, the job that's issued to you might be inadequate to fill your allotted time.
You must find good supplemental material and summarise it in a little book that you have with you at all times. Scour books like Let's Go and English Time and make abridged selections from them. You must be able to glance at a theme and your head be immediately flooded with a to z about it, by dint of your little bible.
Then you'll be impervious to anything that's thrown at you and you can move to the ideal of no prep.
From your experience gained already, I'm sure you know whether you're PS material. That is, running the risk of having to stick with the horrific page in the book and wanting to slit your wrists all the time. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| double post |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| A curriculum is a different story, of course -- a place SHOULD have clear goals and benchmarks that one is intended to reach in each year/semester...but if you are told to be on page 46, and to give the handouts in folder 2-B for 15 minutes...yeah, that stuff is in place to try to bring the bottom up to the middle.... |
Having a curriculum is a minimum requirement for me. What really bothers me is when the school director leaves everything up to me; I'm supposed to make the curriculum, the tests, the worksheets and do the grading; if the book doesn't have enough material or there is no book I have to find all the teaching material--this is something I refuse to deal with.
| shifty wrote: |
At a hakwon usually the K teacher does the nitty gritty and you are there to bring it to life and improve pronunciation. In effect though, you end up making the biggest difference and carry the K teachers.
But it is what they do that dictates what you'll be doing. So you don't plan, they do.
B/c a lot of the K teacher's time in class is taken up with homework admin and interminable talking in Korean, the job that's issued to you might be inadequate to fill your allotted time.
You must find good supplemental material and summarise it in a little book that you have with you at all times. Scour books like Let's Go and English Time and make abridged selections from them. You must be able to glance at a theme and your head be immediately flooded with a to z about it, by dint of your little bible.
Then you'll be impervious to anything that's thrown at you and you can move to the ideal of no prep. |
Thanks for the description of hakwon duties. That really gives me a better idea of what to expect at hakwon.
| shifty wrote: |
From your experience gained already, I'm sure you know whether you're PS material. |
No, actually I don't I've worked at 2 schools in Thailand for extremely short periods of time. Both experiences were drastically different. I've already expressed in some of my other threads that the first school I worked at in Thailand was a complete disaster. This school was a private school, but it was in no way similar to hakwons in Korea. It was not an after school program. It served the same function as a public school, except that it was private so only rich Thai parents sent their kids there. This is the school where I ran myself ragged because I was basically expected to be a super-teacher and do everything.
Then the second school I worked at was more like a public school. It had about 2000 students from kindergarten to high school. I didn't work for the school directly. I worked for an agency that places teachers at a handful of schools. Kind of like EPIK, but a much smaller regional organization. At this school I was provided with teaching material on a monthly basis. Generally I was supposed to get through the material by the end of the month. I had to keep in step with one of the other foreign teachers because we both taught the same material. Each class of about 40 students was split; I take 20 and he takes 20.
Obviously I hated the first school, and loved the second school.
So I think both of these experiences are unlike hakwons or public schools in Korea. It's kind of difficult for me to compare. That's why I'm on here asking so many questions.
| cincynate wrote: |
| Hakwons are the way to go. The kids are divided by level, so you don't have a class with one kid correcting YOUR English and another who can't repeat ABC after you. I have taught both and would take hakwon anyday. |
Can you tell me a little more about why you would take hakwons anyday? Having to teach 30 hrs/week instead of 22 hrs/week doesn't turn you off at all?
| shifty wrote: |
| That is, running the risk of having to stick with the horrific page in the book and wanting to slit your wrists all the time. |
What did you mean by this? |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| vchampea wrote: |
| Can you tell me a little more about why you would take hakwons anyday? Having to teach 30 hrs/week instead of 22 hrs/week doesn't turn you off at all? |
Usually about 10 to 12 of those 30 hours at a hakwon are reserved for small senior classes, where you sit down, a complete change of pace, often satisfying and pleasureful.
| shifty wrote: |
| That is, running the risk of having to stick with the horrific page in the book and wanting to slit your wrists all the time. |
What did you mean by this?[/quote]
As I say it's only a risk and not the done deal. I'm sure the great majority of PS's give you all the creative freedom you want. The one I did was like that, but no problem for me with my 'worked up' material.
My gut feel of you is that you should go the PS route, for best fit.
I see you as someone who likes to be uber prepared and dislike getting the works thrown at you at short notice. All the hours whiling away at a PS might suit you most. THough I think you'll be fine at a hakwon as well, the PS is a nose ahead in your particular case. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
O
From your experience gained already, I'm sure you know whether you're PS material. That is, running the risk of having to stick with the horrific page in the book and wanting to slit your wrists all the time. |
Not all P.S are like that. I've had three and in each case I got to pick the book/books for the English classes and set the pace. |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| Usually about 10 to 12 of those 30 hours at a hakwon are reserved for small senior classes, where you sit down, a complete change of pace, often satisfying and pleasureful. |
By senior classes you mean teaching adults? Is it just your hakwon that has these senior classes? I haven't see this kind of thing in any hakwon job descriptions.
| shifty wrote: |
My gut feel of you is that you should go the PS route, for best fit.
I see you as someone who likes to be uber prepared and dislike getting the works thrown at you at short notice. All the hours whiling away at a PS might suit you most. THough I think you'll be fine at a hakwon as well, the PS is a nose ahead in your particular case. |
An astute observation, but your analysis is a little off, I think. I'm a perfectionist. It pains me to make half-ass lesson plans. When lesson plans are left completely up to me I will probably lose sleep trying to make the lesson plan perfect.
The second school I worked at in Thailand gave me all my teaching material. It was such a relief. I just had to think about how I was going to teach the material. What I was going to teach was already decided for me, and limited to the resources that were given to me. I didn't feel guilty if my lesson didn't go so well because I used what I had at my disposal. And the school director didn't expect me to go home and search the internet all night for better teaching material. Even if I did, they wouldn't spend the money to print it for the students. The school had its system, even though it wasn't always the best.
I have all sorts of ideas to make language education much better, but that would require a complete overhaul of the way most schools run things. I find it best that my ambitious ideas remain incapable of being expressed or manifested because the school isn't going to change everything because a new teacher has some great ideas. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| vchampea wrote: |
| By senior classes you mean teaching adults? Is it just your hakwon that has these senior classes? I haven't see this kind of thing in any hakwon job descriptions. |
It can be adults and often is. Mostly they are scholars with advanced English or getting there.
| shifty wrote: |
My gut feel of you is that you should go the PS route, for best fit.
I see you as someone who likes to be uber prepared and dislike getting the works thrown at you at short notice. All the hours whiling away at a PS might suit you most. THough I think you'll be fine at a hakwon as well, the PS is a nose ahead in your particular case. |
| Quote: |
| An astute observation, but your analysis is a little off, I think. I'm a perfectionist. It pains me to make half-ass lesson plans. When lesson plans are left completely up to me I will probably lose sleep trying to make the lesson plan perfect. |
I have spotted you as a perfectionist and that's why I think you'll be best at a PS, providing you luck into one that grants the requisite creative freedom.
You should work on your weaknesses than rather dwell on strengths. An ability to think on your feet is the ticket in Korea. Every class changes from day to day and you have to be sensitive to mood. And if you have a preordained plan, it might cause you to steamroll classes instead of being flexible.
The ability to tweak classes must be based on a thorough knowledge of your product. This you should study at home, the atmosphere in the staffroom not always conducive. In anycase prep time should be used for joking around with and assisting the K teachers and getting in the right frame of mind to teach. |
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