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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Cyclist vs Pedestration:Was I in the wrong? |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
The other fun part on those bike paths is the "pass the foreigner and then go slow in front of him" game. Which happens if you happen to pass a local. It then becomes their mission in life to pass you again. I had a guy do that last year, and he did pass, but right in front of a sharp curve. He didn't make the turn and went off into the dirt. Had to laugh because he was obviously going way faster than he was comfortable with. But hey, can't come in 2nd place right? |
I've noticed this a lot too. I ride a road bike and Koreans of all ages try to race me on their mountain bikes... usually when I'm on the last few kms of my 50-75k practice run.
This is easy to deal with, if you see them trying to pass you then bait them for a few minutes (let them get on your tail), then slow down slightly and let them pass. Once they do, they'll keep pedaling for their lives for a few minutes before they get tired of the pace. So, the moment they pass you, you start tailgating them (helps if your derailer is on the loud side). Keep going for 5 minutes or so and they'll take the next exit. If not, they'll usually pull over pretending to fix something.
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| Ironically, the better thing to do was to just keep going fast (ironically, "fast" here means only slightly faster than a run) and thread the needle and assume they won't move either way, treating them as near stationary objects. But you always had to have a hand on the brake since there'd be that 1 out of 100 person who actually would try to move. |
Yup. The path I take to go to Seoul is actually split in half: green for pedestrians, red for cyclists. Imagine my surprise when yesterday I see four middle aged Koreans walking ON THE BIKE PATH while the pedestrian path a few feet away is completely empty. Well, they were walking head on so I just rang my bell a few times while accelerating to around 30km/h... they got the hint.
And don't even get me started about the parents that let their preschool children wander around unsupervised next to bike paths and roads... it blows my mind to see so much retarded behavior in a country with one of the highest post-secondary education rates in the world. |
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indieROK
Joined: 16 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just happy that there are so many kms of bike paths, and so many people choosing to get out there and do it.
Once you get away from the central and park areas, the traffic isn't so bad. Sure, sometimes I chuckle at the hyper-equipped folks riding w/out clipless pedals, and there's plenty of attention required when passing or in high traffic areas, but heck, I'll take these minor annoyances in return for use of the infrastructure.
I think you'd experience these kinds of problems anywhere there's miles of bike paths and lots of mixed use. |
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exit86
Joined: 17 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Great thread!
My annoyances, as a frequent rider on the mean streets Seoul:
--Cars that play chicken with you--As a Westerner, I have grown up cycling on roads where folks follow the Christian teachings of the
strongest person being judged by how they treat the weakest. This is not how things are done in this rigidly hierarchical society. The strongest wins and the weakest gets trampled. Gotta love when some jerk is moving in on you so he (ALWAYS a "he" in this country) can turn ahead of you or occupy your lane.
--Cars and taxis that park in the red bike lanes on the major thoroughfares
--Motorbikes also playing chicken with you, swerving in on you, or trying to race you--duh!!!!
--pedestrians trudging along in the bike paths
--when pedestrians (usually always the middle-aged women and men) who hear your bell or call, but still don't move (once again, the whole power thing--geez)
The dudes all suited up who insist on passing you and instantly appointing themselves "The Leader" of the new bike group they think they have just drafted you into crack me up. They are all show and--like the other poster noted--they are a blast to blow away. I ride in their wake until any type of incline occurs, then zip on by.
I also crack up seeing the folks wearing riding jackets and darth vader masks in the dog days of summer. I'm dying in my half-open riding shirt and riding shorts, and these clowns are bundled up so that no skin is visible whatsoever.
Funny! |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Cyclist vs Pedestration:Was I in the wrong? |
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| Savant wrote: |
Now, I am almost passing through there and then I hear a Korean guy call out a name and that kid comes running out and I have to swerve to miss him. Luckily, there was no-one riding on the opposite side or he would have been smacked hard. I'm sorry but what idiot father calls for their child when the father knows that I am coming on a bike and his son isn't even looking to where he's supposed to go and then has the nerve to shout after me like its my fault for almost hitting his child and not his for not being aware that he crossed without his son.
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Sounds like you were vigilant and well aware of what could happen in those situations and you acted appropriately. You can't control what some imbecilic parent does.
I don't think you did anything wrong and wouldn't think twice about the incident again. |
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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like you slowed down enough for the child to not get hurt much if an accident would have happened. It's not possible to be 100% safe all the time, especially when people suddenly change direction with no warning, so as long as you kept the speed down it sounds ok.
I have been most annoyed by cyclists that follow a zigzagging path with close to brownian motions. My local bike path has plenty of space for one bike in each direction, but I have had a few surprises when the person I'm overtaking suddenly does a sharp left turn. No accidents yet, but it happens that I simply bike on the grass instead of on the bikepath when I want to pass someone who is zigzagging too much. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I was walking around that Yeouido Han River Park area yesterday and agree it's pure chaos there. There had been an accident between two cyclists, nothing serious but an ambulance had been called out.
| Savant wrote: |
| I would ride on the road but my Korean girlfriend does not believe that it would be a safe place for me so I don't go there. |
The roads aren't safe but if you ride the same route every day you get a knack of how to stay safer. The biggest problem is riding past those little streets; the buildings are much closer to the road so you don't really get good visibility and cars love to come flying out of those glorified alleyways. So the girlfriend is quite right in a way, you've got to have your wits about you every single second. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| I was walking around that Yeouido Han River Park area yesterday and agree it's pure chaos there. There had been an accident between two cyclists, nothing serious but an ambulance had been called out. |
Think I past by this incident. It involved an adjeossi and teenager just passed the 63 building?
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| The roads aren't safe but if you ride the same route every day you get a knack of how to stay safer. The biggest problem is riding past those little streets; the buildings are much closer to the road so you don't really get good visibility and cars love to come flying out of those glorified alleyways. So the girlfriend is quite right in a way, you've got to have your wits about you every single second. |
I would love try to and get to the Bukak skyway and Namsan but have been lazy trying to plot the best route from my home. The bike path is convenient for me because I am right next to it. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| UknowsI wrote: |
| It sounds like you slowed down enough for the child to not get hurt much if an accident would have happened. It's not possible to be 100% safe all the time, especially when people suddenly change direction with no warning, so as long as you kept the speed down it sounds ok. |
I was going slow enough so that I could have safely braked should that child stepped out in front of me. Instead, I had to swerve my back wheel when he almost ran into the side of my bike.
The only way to make it safer is to actually stick traffic lights where the bike path and pedestrian crossings intersect. Then again, how many Koreans are going to stick to an established set of rules such as a traffic light?
There also needs to be an attempt to make cyclists slow down when passing pedestrian crossing areas. Fine them if they are speeding too much and endangering others.
I was out on my bike yesterday through Yeouido park again and I came to a halt to let a fairly large group cross. I checked behind to make sure anyone on a bike would have ample time to slow down as well as indicating with my hand to slow down.
The result? When the group were half-way across an adjeossi flew by on my side almost knocking them over like bowling pins. I give up with these people. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| I was walking around that Yeouido Han River Park area yesterday and agree it's pure chaos there. There had been an accident between two cyclists, nothing serious but an ambulance had been called out. |
Think I past by this incident. It involved an adjeossi and teenager just passed the 63 building? |
Yeah, that one. It's pure chaos there, wouldn't be surprised if there were lots of accidents around there.
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| I would love try to and get to the Bukak skyway and Namsan but have been lazy trying to plot the best route from my home. The bike path is convenient for me because I am right next to it. |
I see tons of people riding on Namsan but no idea how they get there. The paths I can think of that don't have you hauling the bike up steps part of the way are Seoul Station and Chungmuro, which would both involve a lot of city biking. Seoul Station wouldn't be that bad, just shoot up the line 4 road and swing past Namdaemun on up to the library, but the area between Shinyongsan and Samgakji is not for the faint of heart heh. |
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Seul
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| You were not in the wrong. I bike the Han river bike path regularly. I've had some close calls. Something is bound to happen eventually. Be thankful nothing happened this time. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| I was walking on the right side of the bike path in Han Kang park the other day and I came across this little three year old (looked about 3 as she wasn't that great walking). The little girl was playing alone in the bike path with her little cart, wandering in an out of the bike path. The mother was about 20 feet away playing with her baby. I moved the little cart out of the bike path and onto the grass and looked at the mother and said in korean that it was dangerous there. There were bicycles whizzing buy. The mother just nodded and then I kept walking. After I had walked about 50 feet, I turned around and there was the little girl playing in the bike path again. The mother was still sitting in the same place with her baby. Truly unbelievable. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Cyclist vs Pedestration:Was I in the wrong? |
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| Savant wrote: |
| Now, I am almost passing through there and then I hear a Korean guy call out a name and that kid comes running out and I have to swerve to miss him. Luckily, there was no-one riding on the opposite side or he would have been smacked hard. I'm sorry but what idiot father calls for their child when the father knows that I am coming on a bike and his son isn't even looking to where he's supposed to go and then has the nerve to shout after me like its my fault for almost hitting his child and not his for not being aware that he crossed without his son. |
The korean rule is that anyone going fast should slow down to match the obstacle in his path. In short, if you hit someone or something in front of you, it is never their fault, because you should have been looking in front of you.
Westerners expect the opposite- that "obstacles" or slower people should remove themselves from the path of the faster vehicle.
If you want to test this rule, just liesurely walk out into the road. You'll notice that all the traffic slows down for you like you have right of way. |
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3twentyseven
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Would it be appropriate to use a whistle to alert people to your presence on a bicycle? I think it would be far more noticeable (I would hope) than a bell would be.
Thoughts that come to mind: are whistle's used by officials? Might you become confused with something else? Would it make any difference whatsoever? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Cyclist vs Pedestration:Was I in the wrong? |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| Savant wrote: |
| Now, I am almost passing through there and then I hear a Korean guy call out a name and that kid comes running out and I have to swerve to miss him. Luckily, there was no-one riding on the opposite side or he would have been smacked hard. I'm sorry but what idiot father calls for their child when the father knows that I am coming on a bike and his son isn't even looking to where he's supposed to go and then has the nerve to shout after me like its my fault for almost hitting his child and not his for not being aware that he crossed without his son. |
The korean rule is that anyone going fast should slow down to match the obstacle in his path. In short, if you hit someone or something in front of you, it is never their fault, because you should have been looking in front of you.
Westerners expect the opposite- that "obstacles" or slower people should remove themselves from the path of the faster vehicle.
If you want to test this rule, just liesurely walk out into the road. You'll notice that all the traffic slows down for you like you have right of way. |
That's because in Korea...pedestrians DO have the right of way. In a collision between a motorized vehicle and something else (a bicycle or person) the motorized vehicle is almost always assumed to be at fault. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| That's because in Korea...pedestrians DO have the right of way |
I am going to have to disagree with you on that and I hope you have a link to a standing Korean legal code that says that.
But to answer the thread's question. Yes, the cyclist was wrong. It has been my experience that cyclists are the most selfish of people on the road. They think that they can go whatever speed they want regardless of the pedestrian density (zip to a lot) and think everyone has to get out of their way.
Sadly I have seen too many cyclists make things a lot more dangerous because of their lack of courtesy to others.
One example, back in a western country a dog park was created for dog owners in one particular city. It was to be a safe place for dog owners to walk their dogs, spend some quiet time etc. BUT the cyclists of the city whined and complained, continuously until the city gave in and paved the paths so the spoiled cyclists could have their way.
Now, people who walk their dogs must watch out as these cyclists don't brake, don't watch out and race their bikes to their heart's content. They don't care about anyone but themselves.
I see that those same type of people carry that attitude to this country. |
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